997.2 Engine Reliability
03-30-2015, 09:12 PM
#347
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This is a thread about engine's reliability but no one has defined what reliability really mean yet.
For a better understanding of what I stand for, let me share my view.
First of all, reliability in general, not only regarding the engine, means the brand ability to a) acknowledge an obvious abnormal behavior of some car component; b) give a sound explanation and provide a long term fix for it; c) at a reasonable cost for the customer if the factory warranty has already expired.
Let me give you an example, I have already told you that I find my BMW 1M Coupe's engine reliable, however it goes without saying that it had some reliability issues promptly acknowledge, explained and solved outside the warranty period at a reasonable cost :
1. Charge pipe replacement
2. Water pump replacement
The engine still runs strong at 53k miles.
Now, can we say the same about Porsche in general and the 997.2's engine issues in particular when they arise?
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
For a better understanding of what I stand for, let me share my view.
First of all, reliability in general, not only regarding the engine, means the brand ability to a) acknowledge an obvious abnormal behavior of some car component; b) give a sound explanation and provide a long term fix for it; c) at a reasonable cost for the customer if the factory warranty has already expired.
Let me give you an example, I have already told you that I find my BMW 1M Coupe's engine reliable, however it goes without saying that it had some reliability issues promptly acknowledge, explained and solved outside the warranty period at a reasonable cost :
1. Charge pipe replacement
2. Water pump replacement
The engine still runs strong at 53k miles.
Now, can we say the same about Porsche in general and the 997.2's engine issues in particular when they arise?
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
03-30-2015, 09:22 PM
#348
Nordschleife Master
This is a thread about engine's reliability but no one has defined what reliability really mean yet.
...
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
...
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
Your Camry is calling.
03-30-2015, 09:22 PM
#349
Rat Balls
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Almost 12 hours without any posts. You should really quit bumping your own thread. It reeks of desperation and an insatiable desire for attention.
It's time to start posting boobies...
It's time to start posting boobies...
03-30-2015, 09:27 PM
#350
Nordschleife Master
03-30-2015, 09:31 PM
#351
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Most of time it feels like people just don't care as long as they can say they drive a Porsche... good for them, this thread definitely is NOT for them!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
03-30-2015, 09:41 PM
#352
Nordschleife Master
You should realize that several posters on this thread own/owned many 911s of several generations (from air-cooled classics to 991s) and are fully aware of their engines' reliability characteristics. Because they have that experience they know what is reasonable and how to deal with it. Most of these posters care less for the badge and do not participate in 'cars & coffee' events or Friday night boulevard cruising. They know what they drive and deal with it. Those who can't, must drive Camrys.
03-30-2015, 09:42 PM
#353
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Most of time it feels like people just don't care as long as they can say they drive a Porsche... good for them, this thread definitely is NOT for them!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
03-30-2015, 09:53 PM
#354
Racer
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You should realize that several posters on this thread own/owned many 911s of several generations (from air-cooled classics to 991s) and are fully aware of their engines' reliability characteristics. Because they have that experience they know what is reasonable and how to deal with it. Most of these posters care less for the badge and do not participate in 'cars & coffee' events or Friday night boulevard cruising. They know what they drive and deal with it. Those who can't, must drive Camrys.
Go drive your Porsche!
03-30-2015, 10:26 PM
#355
Rennlist Member
Most of time it feels like people just don't care as long as they can say they drive a Porsche... good for them, this thread definitely is NOT for them!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
This thread is for people that do care, right?!
So, what do they care if someone cares?! Isn't that obsessive?! Go out and drive your Porsche and be happy, isn't that the most logical thing for them to do?!
Who do they want to fool?! Do they really think they are smarter than the next guy?!
It's not even funny... it's a kids joke!
03-30-2015, 10:37 PM
#356
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Location: PA & FL - '12 Carrera GTS
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This is a thread about engine's reliability but no one has defined what reliability really mean yet.
For a better understanding of what I stand for, let me share my view.
First of all, reliability in general, not only regarding the engine, means the brand ability to a) acknowledge an obvious abnormal behavior of some car component; b) give a sound explanation and provide a long term fix for it; c) at a reasonable cost for the customer if the factory warranty has already expired.
Let me give you an example, I have already told you that I find my BMW 1M Coupe's engine reliable, however it goes without saying that it had some reliability issues promptly acknowledge, explained and solved outside the warranty period at a reasonable cost :
1. Charge pipe replacement
2. Water pump replacement
The engine still runs strong at 53k miles.
Now, can we say the same about Porsche in general and the 997.2's engine issues in particular when they arise?
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
For a better understanding of what I stand for, let me share my view.
First of all, reliability in general, not only regarding the engine, means the brand ability to a) acknowledge an obvious abnormal behavior of some car component; b) give a sound explanation and provide a long term fix for it; c) at a reasonable cost for the customer if the factory warranty has already expired.
Let me give you an example, I have already told you that I find my BMW 1M Coupe's engine reliable, however it goes without saying that it had some reliability issues promptly acknowledge, explained and solved outside the warranty period at a reasonable cost :
1. Charge pipe replacement
2. Water pump replacement
The engine still runs strong at 53k miles.
Now, can we say the same about Porsche in general and the 997.2's engine issues in particular when they arise?
That's the fundamental question here: do we trust Porsche's corporate politics or do we have to look for the most reliable Porsche's engine out there based on reliability stats and engine's technology to avoid dealing with the former?
Or yet still, do we just want to drive a Porsche at all cost?
The sky is not falling on the 997.2 Porsche. Move along, there is nothing to see here. There are very few reports of engine problems. Most of the posts are from happy owners who have their cars for the joy of driving. To quote FDR, "There is nothing to fear but fear itself".
03-30-2015, 10:45 PM
#357
Nordschleife Master
I was wrong and CaymanPower right. The part below is an oil/coolant heat exchanger.
Last edited by ADias; 03-31-2015 at 12:36 AM. Reason: Correction.
03-30-2015, 11:00 PM
#358
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And, for the case you didn't notice the BMW 1M's twin-turbocharged engine already had all the late technology back in 2011 that only have started to be introduced in the 911 one year later with the 991, that's the reason why the water pumps failure rate, or the high pressure fuel pumps failure rate for that matter, are about the same between BMW and Porsche because the suppliers, Bosch, Siemens or whoever, are exactly the same for both brands, the same goes for the fuel injectors and most of the other engine components... they are all german after all (not chinese or american).
The only thing Porsche engines do different is the frequency with which they smoke upon startup and score cylinder bores!
Only on very rare occasions such things happen with a BMW engine. Of course that BMW engines also have their own reliability issues like weak rod bearings or the NIKASIL bores of yore when exposed to high sulfur content fuels, just to mention a few.
Unfortunately, BMW doesn't make light weight, low center of gravity, fast and nimble cars like Porsche do, hence the reason I'm here - because Porsche sells more Porsches in the US than in any other part of the planet (ok, maybe they are selling more in China now but I don't know chinese nor I'm after Cayenne's...)
So, the meaningful reliability stats belong to this territory!
The only thing Porsche engines do different is the frequency with which they smoke upon startup and score cylinder bores!
Only on very rare occasions such things happen with a BMW engine. Of course that BMW engines also have their own reliability issues like weak rod bearings or the NIKASIL bores of yore when exposed to high sulfur content fuels, just to mention a few.
Unfortunately, BMW doesn't make light weight, low center of gravity, fast and nimble cars like Porsche do, hence the reason I'm here - because Porsche sells more Porsches in the US than in any other part of the planet (ok, maybe they are selling more in China now but I don't know chinese nor I'm after Cayenne's...
)So, the meaningful reliability stats belong to this territory!
03-30-2015, 11:06 PM
#359
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03-30-2015, 11:50 PM
#360
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And, for the case you didn't notice the BMW 1M's twin-turbocharged engine already had all the late technology back in 2011 that only have started to be introduced in the 911 one year later with the 991, that's the reason why the water pumps failure rate, or the high pressure fuel pumps failure rate for that matter, are about the same between BMW and Porsche because the suppliers, Bosch, Siemens or whoever, are exactly the same for both brands, the same goes for the fuel injectors and most of the other engine components... they are all german after all (not chinese or american).
The only thing Porsche engines do different is the frequency with which they smoke upon startup and score cylinder bores!
Only on very rare occasions such things happen with a BMW engine.!
The only thing Porsche engines do different is the frequency with which they smoke upon startup and score cylinder bores!
Only on very rare occasions such things happen with a BMW engine.!
My 997.2 has 40K miles on it. It's never had any repairs of significance. By the time my previous car hit 40K miles (2007 335i with the same N54 engine as your 1M) the dealer had replaced both turbos, fixed a VANOS problem due to cam ledge bearing scoring and replaced the HPFP. The water pump blew out later in life, just like they all do with that engine. I also had to have the intake valves walnut shell/media blasted to remove carbon buildup and I had to have a faulty injector replaced.
BMW's modern V8 engines are even worse. There's currently a silent recall/"customer care" program taking place for those poor souls who own an N63 V8-engined car like a 550i. The top-mounted turbos cook everything under the hood leading to all sorts of collateral damage as Jake Raby would put it.
The MA1/9A1 may not be a perfect engine but you are unwise to use BMW as model of reliability.