Has the 6 Manual gone the way of the dodo bird?
02-10-2011, 05:37 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
I agree with some of the above, especially the first sentence, although acknowledging the truth of that statement doesn't give me pleasure.
I find the following comment interesting; "with a PDK the driver knows deep-down that he's only paddling it to satisfy his whim......" Isn't that exactly what a driver who chooses a manual over PDK doing? True, once he has a MT he must shift it. But with the initial decision to buy one or the other, by choosing a MT, isn't he "satisfying his whim" to work a shift lever and clutch even though he knows PDK could do it better?
I totally disagree with "add in a PDK and what's left is a cramped, harsh-riding BMW sedan". Like jcnesq, I've been driving manuals for over 4 decades and have driven PDK for nearly 2 years on the street and on track so I'm not basing my opinion just on a brief test drive. PDK can be used in many different ways and is both fun and involving, in a different way than a MT perhaps, but fun and involving nonetheless. We could argue about which is "more" fun but right after that we could debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Pointless. Aside from that, a 911 is about much more than how you shift it. I've owned BMW sedans and coupes too, and the comparision is pure hyperbole.
These PDK/MT threads always end up rehashing the same points so my apologies. Palmbeacher nailed the original topic with his first statement. But just had to add my $.02 to the rest.
I find the following comment interesting; "with a PDK the driver knows deep-down that he's only paddling it to satisfy his whim......" Isn't that exactly what a driver who chooses a manual over PDK doing? True, once he has a MT he must shift it. But with the initial decision to buy one or the other, by choosing a MT, isn't he "satisfying his whim" to work a shift lever and clutch even though he knows PDK could do it better?
I totally disagree with "add in a PDK and what's left is a cramped, harsh-riding BMW sedan". Like jcnesq, I've been driving manuals for over 4 decades and have driven PDK for nearly 2 years on the street and on track so I'm not basing my opinion just on a brief test drive. PDK can be used in many different ways and is both fun and involving, in a different way than a MT perhaps, but fun and involving nonetheless. We could argue about which is "more" fun but right after that we could debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Pointless. Aside from that, a 911 is about much more than how you shift it. I've owned BMW sedans and coupes too, and the comparision is pure hyperbole.
These PDK/MT threads always end up rehashing the same points so my apologies. Palmbeacher nailed the original topic with his first statement. But just had to add my $.02 to the rest.
and similarity to BMW. 
Palmbeacher is right about trying to outshift the PDK - I try, but the fact is those computers think much faster than I can and have an incredibly focused attention toward doing so. I love how in Sport/Auto, a quick lift off the gas while decelerating will cause a downshift - a perfect downshift - there's more control over PDK than non-owners imagine; it can be quite subtle and fun in its own way.
Most of my watches are analog too - a few are astonishingly accurate. But for sports I wear digital that is more fully-featured and a lot cheaper to replace if I bang it into something.
02-10-2011, 05:47 PM
#47
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I think it will, not only because of the convenience, but because it's performance advantages now outweigh the disadvantages - especially when compared to the older tiptronic transmissions.
That said, I picked up a 6-speed Boxster S at Santa Barbara Porsche last Saturday. After having a DSG Audi TT, I was really set to get a PDK Porsche. It's just they didn't have a Boxster S in PDK and after driving the 6 speed, I fell in love with manual shifting again. All was well until later than evening, my wife found out it was a manual and she couldn't drive it. Perhaps that's another reason manual transmissions face extinction. If we, as a society, had only put more efforts into training our women to drive manual transmissions, then we would not be in such a predicament.
PS: My left leg is now larger them my right leg again.
That said, I picked up a 6-speed Boxster S at Santa Barbara Porsche last Saturday. After having a DSG Audi TT, I was really set to get a PDK Porsche. It's just they didn't have a Boxster S in PDK and after driving the 6 speed, I fell in love with manual shifting again. All was well until later than evening, my wife found out it was a manual and she couldn't drive it. Perhaps that's another reason manual transmissions face extinction. If we, as a society, had only put more efforts into training our women to drive manual transmissions, then we would not be in such a predicament.
PS: My left leg is now larger them my right leg again.
02-10-2011, 06:15 PM
#48
Race Director
All was well until later than evening, my wife found out it was a manual and she couldn't drive it. Perhaps that's another reason manual transmissions face extinction. If we, as a society, had only put more efforts into training our women to drive manual transmissions, then we would not be in such a predicament.
PS: My left leg is now larger them my right leg again.
PS: My left leg is now larger them my right leg again.
02-10-2011, 06:24 PM
#49
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02-10-2011, 06:58 PM
#51
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I skipped all the posts, and the answer is... ABSOLUTELY NOT! But, I'd say the proportion of manual vs. Auto/PDK will drop, as some of the drawbacks of Auto transmissions are now solved with the dual-clutch systems.
You however WILL NEVER be able to gain the same feel of engaging a gear with your left food, rev matching, and feeling the way car responds to it with ANYTHING BUT MANUAL! It's just much much more engaging no matter what people try to say... if you are really into driving and enjoy the sensation of making the car do EXACTLY what you want, you'd still be wanting a manual.
I certainly would!
You however WILL NEVER be able to gain the same feel of engaging a gear with your left food, rev matching, and feeling the way car responds to it with ANYTHING BUT MANUAL! It's just much much more engaging no matter what people try to say... if you are really into driving and enjoy the sensation of making the car do EXACTLY what you want, you'd still be wanting a manual.
I certainly would!
02-10-2011, 07:09 PM
#52
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My dealer told me that something like 80% of 911s are ordered with manual. I don't know how credible this is but if it's true, I can't imagine it changing that quickly.
I did the manual vs tip test and went manual. I haven't driven a PDK yet but I will try one before I get my next 911.
I did the manual vs tip test and went manual. I haven't driven a PDK yet but I will try one before I get my next 911.
02-10-2011, 07:11 PM
#53
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^agreed, but us MT drivers will never win an argument about which option provides optimized performance. I've come to terms with that. Having said that, I'll NEVER buy a sports car in automatic (PDK, DSG, Trip...) as long as a MT is available.
02-10-2011, 07:26 PM
#54
Race Director
02-10-2011, 08:56 PM
#56
Race Director
the Tiptronic is an absolute pig compared to the PDK. Funny thing is that the avg person thinks that its the same.
I say that the ;pending death of the true manual is pure hogwash.
I say that the ;pending death of the true manual is pure hogwash.
02-10-2011, 08:59 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
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It appears to come down to a draw. In my case I wish I had bought the PDK after reading all these posts. I went out to buy a PDK originally but was tempted by a great a deal on a new 2010 MT. My previous five Porsches were all MT.
My new car has never been driven and won't be driven until April when I take it out of storage. I'm sure the first time I let that clutch, all regrets will disappear because no matter what, a Porsche is a Porsche and they are all great.
PS This is my last Porsche and the PDK may have extended my ability to drive it longer. I will be 69 this year. My 06 997 C2 was driven an average of 3700kms per year(2300mi) . When my bony *** gets too sore to get in the car, it will be time to give it to one of my grandchildren.
My new car has never been driven and won't be driven until April when I take it out of storage. I'm sure the first time I let that clutch, all regrets will disappear because no matter what, a Porsche is a Porsche and they are all great.
PS This is my last Porsche and the PDK may have extended my ability to drive it longer. I will be 69 this year. My 06 997 C2 was driven an average of 3700kms per year(2300mi) . When my bony *** gets too sore to get in the car, it will be time to give it to one of my grandchildren.
02-10-2011, 09:03 PM
#58
It's not an age thing. I bought my current 6 spd in my early 30s. I find the driving experience far better in a stick, even though I would be a lot faster with a PDK. I would be strongly inclined to buy a stick when I buy a 991, if it is available. I would be surprised if the economics would force Porsche to only sell the automatic. Unlike Ferrari, it can still sell tons of cars with stick shifts. It's an old technology that they can keep making in roughly the same way. The environmental standards could be the real death knell.
02-10-2011, 09:08 PM
#59
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Ferrari though, has to play off its image and currently that means "F1 like" technology in a road car.
The original questions is "are manuals going the way of the dodo"... and I fear that they are. Maybe not in the next 5 years.. but in the next 10-20 I truly think so. I hope I am wrong.. but if they do go away, you can always get a motorcycle
The original questions is "are manuals going the way of the dodo"... and I fear that they are. Maybe not in the next 5 years.. but in the next 10-20 I truly think so. I hope I am wrong.. but if they do go away, you can always get a motorcycle
02-10-2011, 09:11 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
