Has the 6 Manual gone the way of the dodo bird?
02-10-2011, 03:48 PM
#32
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I dare say there are a lot more people ignorant of how to properly drive a stick than flick a little electrical switch and let the computer smooth things out. The notion of "PDK Haters" is nothing more than a paranoid delusion by people who can't tolerate anyone else expressing a conflicting viewpoint.
02-10-2011, 04:08 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
02-10-2011, 04:12 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
because it applies to you and not to me. I am a stick driver of many decades and just bought a 5-speed stick daily driver. I have a Porsche PDK and I do not go around trashing the stick-shift tranny...
Last edited by ADias; 02-10-2011 at 04:59 PM.
02-10-2011, 04:13 PM
#35
Race Director
02-10-2011, 04:17 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Over at Rennteam, RC its German editor says:
"The PDK is fantastic, I always wonder why people complaint. It is also very interesting that most PDK complaints seem to come from...US owners. Weird."
"The PDK is fantastic, I always wonder why people complaint. It is also very interesting that most PDK complaints seem to come from...US owners. Weird."
02-10-2011, 04:39 PM
#38
Race Director
One of the recent issues of Excellence magazine had an editorial on the 997 and how they are loosing what set them apart from other cars and what made Porsches distinct. With the quieter engines, softer variable suspensions, electronic driving aids, etc. etc. the driver is becoming more and more isolated from the experience of driving. The PDK is just one more example of this. The writer's point seemed to be that Porsche needed to rethink what the 911 series was all about if they wanted it to remain distinct in the market place. His hope was that the new management and design team at Porsche under VW was going to take this into account.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-thoughts.html
You can order a 911 as soft or hard edged as you want. No one can convince me that a GT3 with PDK, for example, would isolate you from the driving experience. Porsche knows exactly where they are going, and need to go, with the 911. The Excellence article writer needs to understand the difference between nostalgia and reality.
02-10-2011, 04:47 PM
#39
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I dare say there are a lot more people ignorant of how to properly drive a stick than flick a little electrical switch and let the computer smooth things out. The notion of "PDK Haters" is nothing more than a paranoid delusion by people who can't tolerate anyone else expressing a conflicting viewpoint.
02-10-2011, 04:53 PM
#40
I'm a PDK owner who came from two manual Porsches... PDK is great for those who commute in traffic (not me), those who track their Porsche (not me), or for those with disabilities (not me). Therefore, PDK is a wonderful transmission, alas, not for me. FWIW, I also drive my PDK car exclusively in manual sport mode with SPASM in normal mode.
02-10-2011, 04:58 PM
#41
I dare say there are a lot more people ignorant of how to properly drive a stick than flick a little electrical switch and let the computer smooth things out. The notion of "PDK Haters" is nothing more than a paranoid delusion by people who can't tolerate anyone else expressing a conflicting viewpoint.
YEA!!!!
02-10-2011, 05:01 PM
#42
I imagine many of the PDK "haters" and "manual" lovers are split among an age demographic. Todays 17 year old has grown up entirely in an internet/computer generation. They love "flicking buttons" to make things happen. IMHO, they will only want a PDK and a very small majority (your grandkids) will like/want a manual trans.
I think one could liken the PDK/Manual debate to be similar to the "carbs" vs "Fuel injection" debates in the 1970s as FI clearly had benefits and detractors (most detractors being those who didn't understand the system and the computers that did the adjusting for them
) How many cars sold in the US come with a carb? How many come with FI?
I don't have a PDK and may never.. so I don't really have a dog in this fight. What I do find interesting is just how polarizing the debate can be.
As to Cadillac selling a manual, thats fine too.. but they KNOW they are only going to sell what, 5000 of these CTS-V cars/year? That's pretty small production numbers... and curiously, significantly smaller numbers than the number of 911's Porsche makes in a year.
And many hear scream about a potential cost to replace/repair a PDK.. yet everyone out here also exclaims, when buying used, "get a CPO" or "get an aftermarket warranty".. and even others out here only keep a car 2-3-4 years. why? because you are already aware that these cars are expensive and they will break. Guess what, the Auto trans in the average car already costs $3K to replace. A PDK at say $6-8K is expensive.. but its not exhorbitant when you realize the car was $80-110K to begin with!
I think one could liken the PDK/Manual debate to be similar to the "carbs" vs "Fuel injection" debates in the 1970s as FI clearly had benefits and detractors (most detractors being those who didn't understand the system and the computers that did the adjusting for them
) How many cars sold in the US come with a carb? How many come with FI? I don't have a PDK and may never.. so I don't really have a dog in this fight. What I do find interesting is just how polarizing the debate can be.
As to Cadillac selling a manual, thats fine too.. but they KNOW they are only going to sell what, 5000 of these CTS-V cars/year? That's pretty small production numbers... and curiously, significantly smaller numbers than the number of 911's Porsche makes in a year.
And many hear scream about a potential cost to replace/repair a PDK.. yet everyone out here also exclaims, when buying used, "get a CPO" or "get an aftermarket warranty".. and even others out here only keep a car 2-3-4 years. why? because you are already aware that these cars are expensive and they will break. Guess what, the Auto trans in the average car already costs $3K to replace. A PDK at say $6-8K is expensive.. but its not exhorbitant when you realize the car was $80-110K to begin with!
02-10-2011, 05:04 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
02-10-2011, 05:04 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
02-10-2011, 05:35 PM
#45
Race Director
Racer, I agree with almost all of your post #42 but the part about the age demographic (I'm 60) and liking to flick buttons doesn't apply to me and probably many other current PDK owners. That's not why I bought a PDK. MT cars used to be faster and more efficient, which is the biggest part of why that's all I ever owned. They aren't anymore.
The "fun quotient" part of the MT/PDK debate is totally subjective. I enjoyed my MT cars and I enjoy PDK, and YMMV. But the "perfomance quotient" part of the argument is totally objective. PDK cars are faster, period. I'm not saying that makes them "better" overall, but the faster part is simply undeniable. Within the context of a Carrera and a reasonable drain on my pocketbook, I bought the most horsepower and the tautest suspension I could get. It only made sense (to me) to order the fastest transmission too. It had nothing to do with my age or liking to flick buttons.
The "fun quotient" part of the MT/PDK debate is totally subjective. I enjoyed my MT cars and I enjoy PDK, and YMMV. But the "perfomance quotient" part of the argument is totally objective. PDK cars are faster, period. I'm not saying that makes them "better" overall, but the faster part is simply undeniable. Within the context of a Carrera and a reasonable drain on my pocketbook, I bought the most horsepower and the tautest suspension I could get. It only made sense (to me) to order the fastest transmission too. It had nothing to do with my age or liking to flick buttons.