racer

Something I'd like to question.. traditionally, a manual trans equipped car was the "cheaper" choice, as most would charge a premium for the heavier, slower automatic. It would seem that in performance terms, the PDK type trans can provide equal or even better "performance" than the traditional manual transmission.

In light of this, I think it may be safe to conclude that as the manual trans becomes more scarce, it may be such that a manufacturer will charge more for the manual than the PDK like alternative. How much are you willing to pay for a manual trans? $500? $1500? $2500 (well, for a sequential box, maybe )

I also magine recent emissions regulations world wide will impact our choices. It is much easier for a manufacturer to "control" this process with an "auto" of sorts than with the traditional manual.

jpowers

Thank you,

Perhaps the mods can lock this thread since YOU have spoken for all of us...

Max77

I noticed this recently now that I've been looking at 911s. I remember when I bought my Cayman S the dealer told me a minority of the cars they sell are autos (tip at the time) and now it seems that has shifted. I wonder about the repair costs of a PDK/DSG transmission vs a standard auto/tip vs manual.

I've driven a manual for nearly 8 years now, when I rent cars for work I actually get a little confused with the automatic transmissions, which of course sounds weird. I'd like to test drive a PDK car, but I do imagine it does somewhat remove the driver from the experience. It's good to have choices, though.

jcnesq

With a mere few years of exceptions, I have been driving manuals for 46 years now (yes, I am an old dinosaur!). When I got my 09 TT the other choice was Tip and it was a no brainer for me to get manual (my DD); never liked Tip. Had the PDK been available, I am not sure what I would have done - PDK clearly offers some advantages (shifting speed and use in heavy traffic) - but maybe re-learning would have made sense; I might have gone PDK but I will never know. There have been situations when I was driving my wife's Cayenne S where I hated not having a manual.

I would tell anyone to just get what you feel best with. For me, I still love rowing gears and having what I perceive to be a more engaged and controlled drive.

TommyV44

Manual will always be my choice!

Tom

Palmbeacher

I have no doubt that in a few years if one wants a car with a standard transmission one will have to buy second-hand. In almost every facet of life, computers and technology are becoming the preferred method of control for all devices. Just as few youngsters today can spell, thanks to spell-checker, in the future they will lose the ability to carry on an articulate conversation thanks to the short-hand of texting. The sci-fi of humans devolving in face of increasing reliance upon machines is quickly becoming reality.

That said, I've driven PDK. It can shift manually better than a clutch car, that is true. But it can also shift automatically better than anyone can shift it with the paddles (whether or not he wants to admit it). Whereas with a standard, the driver must shift, with a PDK the driver knows deep-down that he's only paddling it to satisfy his whim...and that in fact if he left the shifting up to the PDK he'd in all probability get better performance out of the car (maybe unless he's an experienced race driver).

Also, I simply do not get the same adrenaline uptake from flipping paddles with my fingertips as clutching and rowing gears. I bought a Porsche for the full-on sports-car experience. As it is, the 997's zen is a notch numbed-down from the air-cooled ancestry. Add in a PDK and what's left is a cramped, harsh-riding BMW sedan. If not for the standard trans, I would not ever have considered a 997.

aaks38

one strong point with the manual is the simplicity of the design and fewer parts. The only thing that really can wear in a manual tranny is the pressure plate and disc which can be had for $600 and the labor isnt that bad. If a PDK goes bad, you pretty much have to replace the assembly which im sure exceeds 7k on a Porsche.. there too many electro mechanical, hydralic and electronic parts with the tranny that make it hard to troubleshoot. The verdict is still out on its longevity.

ADias

So, you think that manual trannies never fail, other than clutch wear and tear? Think again.

Mike in CA

I agree with some of the above, especially the first sentence, although acknowledging the truth of that statement doesn't give me pleasure.

I find the following comment interesting; "with a PDK the driver knows deep-down that he's only paddling it to satisfy his whim......" Isn't that exactly what a driver who chooses a manual over PDK doing? True, once he has a MT he must shift it. But with the initial decision to buy one or the other, by choosing a MT, isn't he "satisfying his whim" to work a shift lever and clutch even though he knows PDK could do it better?

I totally disagree with "add in a PDK and what's left is a cramped, harsh-riding BMW sedan". Like jcnesq, I've been driving manuals for over 4 decades and have driven PDK for nearly 2 years on the street and on track so I'm not basing my opinion just on a brief test drive. PDK can be used in many different ways and is both fun and involving, in a different way than a MT perhaps, but fun and involving nonetheless. We could argue about which is "more" fun but right after that we could debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Pointless. Aside from that, a 911 is about much more than how you shift it. I've owned BMW sedans and coupes too, and the comparision is pure hyperbole.

These PDK/MT threads always end up rehashing the same points so my apologies. Palmbeacher nailed the original topic with his first statement. But just had to add my $.02 to the rest.

bdoviack

Another analogy that can be used when comparing transmissions is watches.

A quartz/digital watch may be more accurate, more durable and an overall better timekeeping device yet many people still prefer a gear-driven, manual, analog watch.

Would it be fair to say the PDK is the digital solution while the manual transmission is the analog choice?

Fin Fever

If we are talking analogies, I like the wooden sailboat analogy. There will always be a market for them, because there is just something about them that people love. No matter how advanced technology gets with graphite hulls, hydroplanes, turbine engines etc., wooden boats will always have a place. By the same token, I think that manual transmissions will have a loyal following for a very long time.

Mike in CA

Well, I wear analog watches and my Carrera S has a PDK so I must be all screwed up.

ADias

Most PDK haters are either stubbornly ignorant about how the PDK is used or simply prejudicial.

As I said many times, we do not find manual tranny haters among PDK users. It is always the reverse. Manual tranny owners hating PDK. Some manual tranny users find a primal urge to express PDK hate and do it directly/aggressively, others do it nuanced. The latter often say 'PDK can be great, but for me I want 6-speed'; they added nothing to the thread, but found an instinctive need to put down PDK.

It does not matter. Choice is good!

Nugget

My Porsche has a manual and I think analog watches are silly, so we balance each other out. The universe maintains equilibrium.

Are you suggesting that by saying "I want 6-speed" a person has "put down PDK"? That's absurd.

Dharn55

One of the recent issues of Excellence magazine had an editorial on the 997 and how they are loosing what set them apart from other cars and what made Porsches distinct. With the quieter engines, softer variable suspensions, electronic driving aids, etc. etc. the driver is becoming more and more isolated from the experience of driving. The PDK is just one more example of this. The writer's point seemed to be that Porsche needed to rethink what the 911 series was all about if they wanted it to remain distinct in the market place. His hope was that the new management and design team at Porsche under VW was going to take this into account.

That being said, all these things have made the 997 more appealing to a broader market and have increased sales. Many buyers who would not have considered a 911 in the past, or would not have kept it after actually driving one, now like the cars. I remember when I bought my current car in 2000 the mother of my daughters best friend also bought one. She had never driven on but wanted a "Porsche" because of the image. She had it for about 6 months and sold it for the Lexus convertible. Did not like the hard ride and noise, etc. etc. With one of today's 997's she probably wold have been much happier.

Having started in a 67" 911 I have seen the evolution of the series. Yes the cars are better now, safer, faster, etc. etc., but somehow they have lost some of the feeling of what made them distinct and special. Would I want to give up my ABS and PSM, and the power of the water cooled engine and AC that works, no, not really. But I do think that Porsche needs to watch carefully in order to keep the cars distinct from the competition. IMHO