mten

Yes... The loaner that Porsche dealer gave me is a Merc C300 with a 6 speed... I asked the service manager that I was surprised that they loan out MT, he stated only to Porsche owners and priority to 911 owners

dhud

Well, since it seems germane to this discussion, I just bought the latest issue of Total 911 Magazine, Issue #70. There is a good article on the 911 GTS and the author, Kyle Fortune, had the following to say about the PDK: "Don't opt for the PDK, though. As clever and fast as the auto 'box is - thankfully fitted here with paddles as standard - to option it is to deny yourself one of the core appeals of driving the GTS; or any 911 for that matter. Working the GTS's 3.8-litre via the standard six-speed manual is fantastic. You're in control, rather than an ECU, allowing you to wring the falt six out to its redline, without electronic intervention overriding your decisions." Interesting the debate is in the magazines as well.

racer

"getting the most" out of debate is a slippery slope and tends to be an emotional issue.. I don't know if the PDK is better or worse.. or that driving one would really make me feel "less involved" but I do know it would make me faster and that's why I like to track and DE.. to go fast.

When ABS was introduced, folks would say "there's no way ABS will out brake me" and "i love threshold braking" then they see it in F1 (early 1990s?) and suddenly its not so bad.. it DOES make 99%of drivers stop better/faster/safer in most conidtions. I don't hear folks complain that Porsche does NOT make a non-abs version.

I've only owned manual transmission cars.. but one thing I liked in an AX set up Boxster S was that it was a TIP. It allowed for no brainer left foot braking.. it allowed me to not need 2 feet on 3 peddles when having 2 feet on 2 peddles was good enough. I admit I did not like the seemingly slow shifting. I can only imagine that the PDK shifts quicker and feels more direct than the TIP ever could.

Another demographic question I wonder is of the 997s out there, how many are primary use cars vs "special cars".. in essence, they are a luxury to begin with, so having a choice between Tip/PDK/Manual should always be kept possible. Perhaps those espousing their joy of a perfectly timed Heel-toe downshift appreciate it more because they spend the rest of the week driving a "slushbox" in traffic?

Mike in CA

I keep seeing the issue put forward of supposed lack of control with PDK and it is not only grossly overstated but downright false. In manual mode there is very little intervention and you have virtually the same control as with a MT; you're simply using an interface that requires less physical motion. That motion may be part of the fun, but it doesn't actually give you more meaningful control.

PDK gives you some options for car control that are very difficult with a manual. You can shift without lifting and shift easily in mid turn without upsetting the balance of the car, for example. One thing you can't do is accidently downshift to a too-low gear and grenade your engine. It's one thing for someone to say they like how a MT controls the car, quite another to say that PDK doesn't let you have the same control.

It is interesting that the debate is in the magazines too, but not surprising. They're just people like us with a bigger forum for their opinions.

PDK is outstanding for autoX and in Sport Plus mode shifts are right now It's a big advantage not to have to decide whether it's worth making that quick upshift to third on a tight course; it just happens with no time lost on the subsequent shift back down to second or even 1st in really tight turns. Hope you get a chance to try a friend's PDK equipped autoX car.

ADias

Mike: the level of PDK disinformation/misinformation is everywhere and in car rags is even worse.

w00tPORSCHE

totally agree with Mike's comments. Like several PDK users in this forum, I too use it on manual mode 95% of the time and I don't see any ECU controlling my decisions .... am I missing something guys ?

RaceCadet

+1 to racer's point above. I just bought my first 911 last month as a "special car" (hence my profile) and after test driving both PDKs and MT's, I went with an MT.

In all fairness, the PDK was nothing short of brilliant and I'm thoroughly impressed that it has managed to be compelling to both track addicts and commuter posers. But it just simply wouldn't enable me to accomplish my goal of perfecting the heel and toe some time before I die. I've been reading about this technique in Road & Track and Car and Driver for 32 of my 42 years and dammit, it's time!

Sure, heel and toe and even shifiting an MT in general will likely become the equivalent of mastering a typewriter but I don't care. The learning curve so far has been thrilling beyond words.

daddyscar

I had a pdk boxster for about five days when my old stick cayman was in for service. PDK did it's job but driving a stick is still more fun for me. Same with corkscrews. Lots of fancy turbo versions. I still like the old school screw in and pull type.

Chris from Cali

Maybe my manual anxiety is exacerbated by the fact that this is the first time in my life that NONE of my cars has a manual transmission. I traded in an RS4 (manual) and a Cayman (manual) for the C4S. My other car is a DSG GTI. I had a manual 997.1 S, a couple of manual S2000s, a manual S4, and a manual Evo before those. This whole debate may work in my favor since I can leverage it to convince my wife that I NEED a manual transmission car...

buckwheat987

Adias,

You are the one who perpetuates this idea that manual drivers hate PDK. Its not true but you and you mostly on the forums blow this out of proportion. Its like someone has questioned your manhood.

Give it a rest. And dont throw me one of two posts to prove your point. They are meaningless in your desire to drag this BS out.

Quadcammer

Basically from this post, I've concluded that you simply didn't know how to drive a manual transmission car very well.

You can easily shift a manual without lifting off the throttle.

shifting mid turn is ALWAYS a bad idea, regardless of whether you like to click buttons or move a lever.

The so-called money shift is never on my mind. If you shift properly this should never happen. Missing a shift...maybe...part of the fun no?

zanwar

You can shift during a turn with PDK, it's one of the advantages of dual clutch over single clutch systems. The computer disengages / engages the two clutches simultaneously, so there's no loss of power to the wheels and it doesn't upset the car. I've tried this and it works. Depending on the track, it could grab you a couple of tenths per lap.

stevepow

winkingchef

These threads make me want to quit rennlist.

Mike in CA

From reading many of your previous posts it's clear that reaching incorrect conclusions is something you specialize in. I won't bore you with details of the years I've driven manuals, driving schools I've attended, or competitive events I've run. It would be pointless. So I'll just address the other issues you've raised.

Sure, it's called speed or power shifting and I was doing it on dragstrips in the late '60's in my Plymouth GTX 440 while you were no doubt still in short pants, so I'm familiar with the technique. Hold the accelerator to the floor, briefly engage the clutch and slam into the next gear. Timing of the use of clutch and shifter is critical and even under the best of circumstances it involves increased wear on the clutch and tranny. Doing it in/to your MT Porsche on the street is stupid. Doing it with your PDK Porsche is inherent to the design and effortless.

Zanwar is correct in his post #87 above. I've also used the mid-corner shift with PDK to good effect. But don't believe us. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Walter Rohrl in the December 2009 issue of Panorama page 20:

Panorama: For your own driving do you still prefer the six-speed?
Rohrl: No, this time I will take a PDK. I think it's time to change. Now with the paddle shifting, I like it more than before. I have the feeling with the paddle shifting that it is near to manual shifting. If I push it I feel the gears and especially on this circuit (Nurburgring) we have some long corners where you have to shift in a corner. That makes the car also easier to handle. Load change is the worst thing you can do. When we have a driving school, we always ask people to please try to make the entry of the corner the slowest point. Then slowly accelerate. Don't go too fast and cause a load change. And with the PDK, if you change, it doesn't feel anything. Manual shifting, if you have to shift, it's something on the car. And that, I think, is the reason today I will change also to PDK for my personal car.

It always bothers me to miss a shift, but I guess I'm something of a perfectionist, even if I seldom achieve perfection. But you think missing shifts is part of the fun? Interesting. And I'm the guy who supposedly doesn't know how to drive a MT very well.......