Cars Trashed at Sheraton
#46
Nordschleife Master
You gonna sue if your car gets hit by a golf ball at a golf course? How, exactly, was the hotel negligent? By using reclaimed water? By not having groundskeepers inspect sprinklerheads hourly instead of, say, semiweekly?
If a flock of pelicans flew over and shat all over the cars, they would be in the same boat. These Ventura/SB people should quit their whining and be grateful the hotel is using reclaimed water in order to conserve our fresh supply. How soon they forget the massive fires that were extinguished in part with lake and reservoir water...
The arrogance is just amazing. Embarrassing, really.
If a flock of pelicans flew over and shat all over the cars, they would be in the same boat. These Ventura/SB people should quit their whining and be grateful the hotel is using reclaimed water in order to conserve our fresh supply. How soon they forget the massive fires that were extinguished in part with lake and reservoir water...
The arrogance is just amazing. Embarrassing, really.
what may be at issue here is that unlike bird droppings, the sprinklers are under control of the hotel. the hotel has a duty not to endanger the guest or their belongings.
again, i don't care. and the SB/Ventura types may be this or that. and thank God it wasn't my car anyway.
i'm just trying to understand the liability. brief story;
i was playing golf in a tournament, with an Appellate Court judge as my opponent. it wasn't for much, so we were friendly during the round. he spent several holes discussing a case he had before him involving a motor vehicle accident where there were suits and cross-suits and the jury decided that there was no liability on either side. one side decided to appeal to his court and he was trying to decide who was at fault.
i said, "well maybe the jury was right". he said, "someone is always more wrong".
i didn't forget this. this is how they think. you and i may see it too fuzzy. they are in the business of laying blame... and often they decide what we would consider oddly.
#48
Actually yes...not against the course owner, but the offender. I think you may be taking the concept of "assumed risk" too far. Were I to get hit by a golf ball from the group playing behind me that puts me in a coma, would that be my own fault? Have I waived all my rights to personal and property safety simply by playing on a golf course?
Last edited by Ucube; 06-17-2009 at 12:31 PM.
#49
Banned
#50
I think the real "pain" here, is the time (and money) needed to adequately remove the water spotting and the attitude of the employees. IMHO, the actual correction needed for these cars (i.e. clear coat removal) will be practically nil.
Of course you could just jump right and correct the paint with a heavier polish and pad combo--something like Menzera's Power Gloss and an orange Lake Country pad, then step down to a lighter polish--in which case you would be removing some clear. Again, my suggestion and .02--based on what I saw--is that a finishing polish combined with a finishing pad would be sufficent to resolve the issues on the affected cars.
I'm not familiar with the polish Todd has posted, so I don't know if it's got a lot of cut or not.
Another approach, which may work too and that I didn't consider, would be to use a "chemical" type cleaner like Klasse. As you know, my preferences are to first use the least abrasive polish and pad combo, then ratchet things up as needed.
In the end, these cars will be fine, but as already stated, it's the aggravation, time involved to resolve the paint condition and the ho hum attitude of the hotel staff that's so frustrating.
#51
Banned
You certainly want to use a very fine cut, which is what that autopia recommended product I posted likely is. I would also try P21S Paintwork Cleanser, that's a very, very fine polish.
But I agree with you, you always want to start with the lightest cutter and work your way up. Or, if you have a lot of patience and want to minimize your risk of damage, stick with the finest cutter and just apply gobs of elbow grease.
#53
Banned
A clay bar can only remove surface contaminants. The damage here is to the paint itself in the form of etchings.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post2503232
http://www.detailedimage.com/Chemica...ct-description
#54
Nope.
A clay bar can only remove surface contaminants. The damage here is to the paint itself in the form of etchings.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post2503232
A clay bar can only remove surface contaminants. The damage here is to the paint itself in the form of etchings.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post2503232
#55
As Ben noted, some of the paint cleaners can probably be classified as "polishes". It would be interesting to evaluate this from a "scientific" perspective. IMHO, removing the water spots will also involve removing some of the clear coat as the surface contamination is corrected. The paint has something on its surface and needs to be re-leveled. The process of removing the spots also removes whatever protection has been applied--i.e. wax or sealant. I don't think it's possible to take away the contamination (and the protection) re-smooth the surface and prep it for a coat of wax or sealant and not take away some of the paint, no matter how miniscule that amount might be?
Ben, what say you?
#56
Rennlist Member
Parking next to the grass is always a concern of mine. I worry less about sprinkler water then the guy cutting the grass that potentially runs into my car or has something shot out of the chute that hits it.
Also, I avoid parking directly under trees or light posts to avoid bird poop. I also avoid parking in narrow parking spots or in theater parking spots where door dings by kids. I park far away in grocery store lots or places like target also. I never valet! So basically I sum up the potential threat to my car before I park it somewhere and if the threat reaches my threshold, I just don't park there.
In regards to this thread, I don't see how you blame the hotel for misaligned heads.
Still, I sympathize, it sucks!
Also, I avoid parking directly under trees or light posts to avoid bird poop. I also avoid parking in narrow parking spots or in theater parking spots where door dings by kids. I park far away in grocery store lots or places like target also. I never valet! So basically I sum up the potential threat to my car before I park it somewhere and if the threat reaches my threshold, I just don't park there.
In regards to this thread, I don't see how you blame the hotel for misaligned heads.
Still, I sympathize, it sucks!
#57
As a precursor, this is not legal advice and no one party shall rely upon the following information as legal advice. I strongly suggest retaining
legal counsel in your jurisdiction concerning this issue. There, I am covered.
This is an interesting situation. On its face, it does appear to be a simple sprinkler malfunction. However, a hotel, restaurant, retail store, etc. does
owe a duty of protection to its patrons. As a commercial business, it does
owe a higher standard of care and protection to its patrons than does your next door neighbor or a friend.
If you can prove/show actual damages did occur as a result of the hotel's
sprinkler system's malfunction, there is a very strong argument that they are liable for damages to your vehicle. The hotel does owe you a duty of protection while you are on their premises. And with this being said, the hotel has a duty to ensure that the sidewalks, staircases, grass, lobbies, etc. are safe for its patrons.
Someone had eluded to a laptop getting wet in a room from a fire sprinkler
malfunction. I did not follow his reasoning exactly, however, a hotel
would also be liable for this mishap. When you check into a hotel or
walk into a retail store, the law works to protect you from any potential
dangers that may exist. Of course, there are a number of other intervening
causes which may present themselves, however, this is a general rule.
Now, the main issue is, were the P-Cars actually damaged and do you
want to make an issue of it. I would say, take it in for a detail, and
next time, park away from any potential malfunctioning sprinkler heads.
Now all you have to worry about are run away luggage carts hitting
your P-Car.
legal counsel in your jurisdiction concerning this issue. There, I am covered.
This is an interesting situation. On its face, it does appear to be a simple sprinkler malfunction. However, a hotel, restaurant, retail store, etc. does
owe a duty of protection to its patrons. As a commercial business, it does
owe a higher standard of care and protection to its patrons than does your next door neighbor or a friend.
If you can prove/show actual damages did occur as a result of the hotel's
sprinkler system's malfunction, there is a very strong argument that they are liable for damages to your vehicle. The hotel does owe you a duty of protection while you are on their premises. And with this being said, the hotel has a duty to ensure that the sidewalks, staircases, grass, lobbies, etc. are safe for its patrons.
Someone had eluded to a laptop getting wet in a room from a fire sprinkler
malfunction. I did not follow his reasoning exactly, however, a hotel
would also be liable for this mishap. When you check into a hotel or
walk into a retail store, the law works to protect you from any potential
dangers that may exist. Of course, there are a number of other intervening
causes which may present themselves, however, this is a general rule.
Now, the main issue is, were the P-Cars actually damaged and do you
want to make an issue of it. I would say, take it in for a detail, and
next time, park away from any potential malfunctioning sprinkler heads.
Now all you have to worry about are run away luggage carts hitting
your P-Car.
I am also an attorney and not a doctor, thank God (at least I don't have to navigate a morass of paperwork to seek reimbursement from insurance companies, have my bills significantly marked down by those same insurance companies, which are eroding the standard of care, and, I almost forgot, I don’t keep my clients waiting an hour after their designated appointment time…but I digress).
At Law is right on target. The point is that, contrary to some earlier posts and conventional wisdom, just because you may have suffered damage you aren’t necessarily entitled to compensation. Generally, a plaintiff claiming negligence would need to prove a number of elements, such as duty owed by the defendant, a breach of that duty (i.e., a breach of the standard of care as measured by the hypothetical reasonable person), causation (both actual and proximate) and damages. A number of posts take exception as to whether a duty was owed or whether that duty was breached by the hotel. I think everyone can agree that damage occurred to the P-cars in the form of water spots and that the hotel’s sprinklers caused the water spots.
As pointed out in earlier posts, as a general matter, a duty is owed by the hotel to its guests. The sprinkler warning sign someone posted is evidence that no duty was owed to guests parking their cars in the hotel lot. If the hotel lot was a pay lot, I bet the parking stub had some disclaimer language written on it in really small type. But these are not dispositive by themselves on the question of duty.
Assuming a duty was owed, whether that duty was breached is also a question that reasonable minds can differ. Some people believe that it is irresponsible for the hotel to not maintain their sprinkler system. While others may think that misaimed sprinkler heads are not a big deal. Ultimately, I think it’s not as clear-cut as some may think.
The part of the story I find unbelievable is that the P Club would return to the hotel after a number of its members were treated in the manner described.
#58
Nordschleife Master
I am also an attorney and not a doctor, thank God (at least I don't have to navigate a morass of paperwork to seek reimbursement from insurance companies, have my bills significantly marked down by those same insurance companies, which are eroding the standard of care, and, I almost forgot, I don’t keep my clients waiting an hour after their designated appointment time…but I digress).
that is why i work for patients, not Ins Co. or the G. they pay me, not "third (turd) parties"and if a patient is seen 10 min late, my staff will hear about it. i've had attys keep me waiting far longer.
thanks for the info. does it mean they should retain counsel, or just "eat it"?
#60
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is the point that our leadership fails to get. Why anyone would return to that place is beyond me. I think they'll be gunning for us on a return visit.
The chance of me going to that place again -- Zero.
The chance of me going to that place again -- Zero.