997.1 C2S Market Values - Early Bore Scored as-is vs. rebuild with Nickies, etc.
#61
Rennlist Member
Just to be clear, using anything in the oil that might break stuff free within a modern Porsche engine is a no-no. For example, the lifters being that they have only an in hole end up acting like a filter.. You're likely to make things worse by using any solvent in the oil, not to mention anything that is going to reduce the film strength of the oil, especially with the Alusil or Lokasil bores, is asking for trouble. I can't be any more clear on this.
If you come across an engine that has been poorly serviced, the best thing you can do is shorten oil change intervals and do several oil and filter changes in short succession.
If you come across an engine that has been poorly serviced, the best thing you can do is shorten oil change intervals and do several oil and filter changes in short succession.
#63
Rennlist Member
So, it seems this is what I'm gathering so far:
Now that I have fresh Driven DT40, should I just do a good ole' fashioned Italian tune-up on the highway at around 4500 rpm for 10-20 minutes and see the results? Tried that with a slightly higher concentration of Seafoam in the fuel tank (engine was still on Liquid Moly 5W40 though) and the "hiccups" at idle seemed to occur less frequently, but the tick is still there.
- From the pictures & video I posted, no one has seemed to be terribly concerned about the scuffing in #6. Is that the case?
- FWIW - I sent the pics to my main Porsche indy and he called it "normal wear" for 16 years/80K miles. About to send to another Porsche indy who has seen my car to see if he concurs.
- The ticking may be another problem. Maybe stuck lifter, loose spark plug, or leaky exhaust gasket?
- Consensus is to NOT use Seafoam or other additives in the oil (in case it is a stuck lifter). Sounds like it worked for Ericson38 but he got lucky with no damage?
Now that I have fresh Driven DT40, should I just do a good ole' fashioned Italian tune-up on the highway at around 4500 rpm for 10-20 minutes and see the results? Tried that with a slightly higher concentration of Seafoam in the fuel tank (engine was still on Liquid Moly 5W40 though) and the "hiccups" at idle seemed to occur less frequently, but the tick is still there.
Worth a look . . .
I'm adding the pic of my scored bore, you'll see the difference when you compare it to your pics. Mine is still early stage but it has progressed beyond streaking. 06 C4S w/ 59k miles,
#64
Burning Brakes
Charles,
According to FSI, the 2.7 liter Cayman/Boxter base engine is not susceptible to scoring, while the 3.4 liter S is susceptible.
Cylinder Bore (Scoring) – Flat Six Innovations – Porsche Engine Experts (flat6innovations.com)
Is that due to cylinder wall thickness in combination with less side loads between piston to bore, or is there something in the material sense.
Thanks
According to FSI, the 2.7 liter Cayman/Boxter base engine is not susceptible to scoring, while the 3.4 liter S is susceptible.
Cylinder Bore (Scoring) – Flat Six Innovations – Porsche Engine Experts (flat6innovations.com)
Is that due to cylinder wall thickness in combination with less side loads between piston to bore, or is there something in the material sense.
Thanks
#65
I did run up to 6500-ish rpm a few times after driving 25 mins and the rough idle went from moderate to minor afterwards. Still puzzling though.
One other thing.....@Petza914 I know you've dropped the sump on these cars plenty of times. Is it normal for you need to top off periodically after refilling with oil after dropping the sump? My oil level has gone from right at the full mark after refilling to at the minimum mark....so I had to top off about .75-1 qt.
Last edited by BamaPCar; 03-07-2023 at 11:02 AM.
#66
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Charles,
According to FSI, the 2.7 liter Cayman/Boxter base engine is not susceptible to scoring, while the 3.4 liter S is susceptible.
Cylinder Bore (Scoring) – Flat Six Innovations – Porsche Engine Experts (flat6innovations.com)
Is that due to cylinder wall thickness in combination with less side loads between piston to bore, or is there something in the material sense.
Thanks
According to FSI, the 2.7 liter Cayman/Boxter base engine is not susceptible to scoring, while the 3.4 liter S is susceptible.
Cylinder Bore (Scoring) – Flat Six Innovations – Porsche Engine Experts (flat6innovations.com)
Is that due to cylinder wall thickness in combination with less side loads between piston to bore, or is there something in the material sense.
Thanks
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8KaboveMSL (03-08-2023)
#67
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This is what I'm thinking too. For some reason I was getting a progressively pretty rough idle this morning as the engine was warming up. I'd occasionally hear a faint & sporadic sound as it was warming up too....sounded something like between a "tap" and a "puff". However, it still runs smooth as silk as always when above 2K rpm.
I did run up to 6500-ish rpm a few times after driving 25 mins and the rough idle went from moderate to minor afterwards. Still puzzling though.
One other thing.....@Petza914 I know you've dropped the sump on these cars plenty of times. Is it normal for you need to top off periodically after refilling with oil after dropping the sump? My oil level has gone from right at the full mark after refilling to at the minimum mark....so I had to top off about .75-1 qt.
I did run up to 6500-ish rpm a few times after driving 25 mins and the rough idle went from moderate to minor afterwards. Still puzzling though.
One other thing.....@Petza914 I know you've dropped the sump on these cars plenty of times. Is it normal for you need to top off periodically after refilling with oil after dropping the sump? My oil level has gone from right at the full mark after refilling to at the minimum mark....so I had to top off about .75-1 qt.
If you had the oil filter off and refilled the car before starting the engine and then drove it and checked it the next morning, you'd be a 1/2 quart or so low from the filter filling up.
#68
I generally fill the filter housing halfway too during oil changes, so I drained the filter housing. I guess the low oil this morning was from the filter housing getting refilled.
#69
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
According to Jake, you should not prefill the filter at all. The reason is that the oil in the filter becomes an impediment to the air before and after it moving through as quickly as possible to get oil into the motor. You get a little splash from what you put into the filter but it then takes a lot longer for the remaining air to evacuate and the steady oil supply to happen.
#70
According to Jake, you should not prefill the filter at all. The reason is that the oil in the filter becomes an impediment to the air before and after it moving through as quickly as possible to get oil into the motor. You get a little splash from what you put into the filter but it then takes a lot longer for the remaining air to evacuate and the steady oil supply to happen.
#71
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Very good to know, thanks Pete! I had a 0.5-1 second mild grind/scrape sound this time when I first started the engine after refilling with oil. I sure hope the already-saturated filter didn't prevent oil from cycling for a split second and cause any damage! I guess I'll know with time.....
#72
Rennlist Member
I'd change to DT40 (or if your ambient air temps are high enough maybe even DT50 or FR50) and just monitor it. You'll want to make sure you check fuel trims, check for vacuum leaks, and anything else that might be contributing to this issue.
I've seen engines with scoring at this level go quite a long time assuming any other issues have been corrected and the oils mentioned above are used until it gets bad enough that you have to take it off the road. You'll know when it's bad when wear levels jump and oil consumption starts to rapidly increase, coupled with piston noise and sooty tail pipe.
#73
Rennlist Member
The cast pistons are also iron plated where the forged pistons have a iron coating applied on the skirts (e.g. Ferro-print). The iron plating on the cast pistons is much more durable and the cast pistons expand less too.
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8KaboveMSL (03-08-2023)
#75
That's not streaking. I'd say that's very early stages of bore scoring, especially if this was found on bank 2.
I'd change to DT40 (or if your ambient air temps are high enough maybe even DT50 or FR50) and just monitor it. You'll want to make sure you check fuel trims, check for vacuum leaks, and anything else that might be contributing to this issue.
I've seen engines with scoring at this level go quite a long time assuming any other issues have been corrected and the oils mentioned above are used until it gets bad enough that you have to take it off the road. You'll know when it's bad when wear levels jump and oil consumption starts to rapidly increase, coupled with piston noise and sooty tail pipe.
I'd change to DT40 (or if your ambient air temps are high enough maybe even DT50 or FR50) and just monitor it. You'll want to make sure you check fuel trims, check for vacuum leaks, and anything else that might be contributing to this issue.
I've seen engines with scoring at this level go quite a long time assuming any other issues have been corrected and the oils mentioned above are used until it gets bad enough that you have to take it off the road. You'll know when it's bad when wear levels jump and oil consumption starts to rapidly increase, coupled with piston noise and sooty tail pipe.
Unfortunately I can't justify a rebuild with Nickies if it still has some usable life & value left. Probably best for me to cash out now, and save up hoping I can (realistically) afford an air-cooled car several years down the road. I know the Nickies rebuild will be worth it to someone else though.
Will definitely share with the group.