997.1 C2S Market Values - Early Bore Scored as-is vs. rebuild with Nickies, etc.
#76
@Charles Navarro many thanks for sharing your assessment, Charles. Although I'd rather know the truth, it is a punch to the gut, of course! I drive the car about 6,000 miles/year. Any very wild guess at how much time it has left before a rebuild? Sounds like I sadly need to decide how long I can realistically keep the car before value plummets too far.
Unfortunately I can't justify a rebuild with Nickies if it still has some usable life & value left. Probably best for me to cash out now, and save up hoping I can (realistically) afford an air-cooled car several years down the road. I know the Nickies rebuild will be worth it to someone else though.
Will definitely share with the group.
Unfortunately I can't justify a rebuild with Nickies if it still has some usable life & value left. Probably best for me to cash out now, and save up hoping I can (realistically) afford an air-cooled car several years down the road. I know the Nickies rebuild will be worth it to someone else though.
Will definitely share with the group.
As scoring progresses, ring seal will decrease and I would also expect a drop in the crankcase vacuum levels. Normal manometer readings for a healthy M96 engine is 4-6" of h20. If you have access to a manometer, you can track this pretty easily as another indicator of engine health. Likewise consumption will increase rapidly coinciding with increased piston slap noise and the tell tale single sooty tail pipe.
Selling the car at this point should require disclosing bore scoring which means it's already taken a hit on value.
Last edited by Charles Navarro; 03-07-2023 at 06:10 PM.
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tegraphile (03-07-2023)
#77
Unfortunately, I can't say how long it's going to last. It might last a year, it might last three. The used oil analysis might shed more light on this than the bore scoping itself now that you know you have it and if you test at every oil change will tell you the speed of the progression based on the rate of increase per 1000 miles of the aluminum, silicon, and iron levels and how quickly the additive package is being used up.
As scoring progresses, ring seal will decrease and I would also expect a drop in the crankcase vacuum levels. Normal manometer readings for a healthy M96 engine is 4-6" of h20. If you have access to a manometer, you can track this pretty easily as another indicator of engine health. Likewise consumption will increase rapidly coinciding with increased piston slap noise and the tell tale single sooty tail pipe.
Selling the car at this point should require disclosing bore scoring which means it's already taken a hit on value.
As scoring progresses, ring seal will decrease and I would also expect a drop in the crankcase vacuum levels. Normal manometer readings for a healthy M96 engine is 4-6" of h20. If you have access to a manometer, you can track this pretty easily as another indicator of engine health. Likewise consumption will increase rapidly coinciding with increased piston slap noise and the tell tale single sooty tail pipe.
Selling the car at this point should require disclosing bore scoring which means it's already taken a hit on value.
I've spent the whole 2 years I've owned this car worried sick about this problem. I constantly bothered my Porsche indy about my car's health like a hypochondriac. Yet, it appears the nightmare is still coming true. Bore scoring anxiety at it's worst......
#78
Yes bore scoring sucks, I am sorry you are going through this. There is no one's opinion I value more than Charles on this topic so I am not disagreeing with him. But if that's bore scoring that looks very mild (it does not look like if you ran a fingernail across it that it would catch). If you switched to DT40 or FR50 and change your oil obsessively I would be surprised if you only get 1-3 years out of the engine (6,000 - 18,000 miles). The UOA results are going to be key here, especially if they come back with low wear levels. I am very curious to see what the oil looks like....... don't bet against yourself yet.
#79
Got it, thanks again for your insight again, Charles. I'll sit on this one for a just little bit and let emotions wind down before I decide anything.
I've spent the whole 2 years I've owned this car worried sick about this problem. I constantly bothered my Porsche indy about my car's health like a hypochondriac. Yet, it appears the nightmare is still coming true. Bore scoring anxiety at it's worst......
I've spent the whole 2 years I've owned this car worried sick about this problem. I constantly bothered my Porsche indy about my car's health like a hypochondriac. Yet, it appears the nightmare is still coming true. Bore scoring anxiety at it's worst......
#80
@silver_tt @Petza914 @Charles Navarro Finally got oil results in from SPEEDiagnostix. See attached screenshot.
Only 847 miles on the sample, but would be very curious to hear your thoughts. Seems to say everything is in range.
Only 847 miles on the sample, but would be very curious to hear your thoughts. Seems to say everything is in range.
#81
Thank you for sharing this. My take is that some of your levels like Si look elevated given the short 847 mile OCI -- but not necessarily alarmingly so. Seeing these results reinforces my comments that if that image does in fact show bore scoring (and I would defer to Charles on this) it seems very early and I suspect that you can run that engine for a long time especially if you play your cards right and take precautions. If it was my car I would switch to DT40 and change the oil very often. It would also be prudent to do oil analysis periodically to see how the numbers are trending and make sure they are not getting worse. At this point I don't see anything to immediately lose sleep over, just like I initially thought.
#82
Thank you for sharing this. My take is that some of your levels like Si look elevated given the short 847 mile OCI -- but not necessarily alarmingly so. Seeing these results reinforces my comments that if that image does in fact show bore scoring (and I would defer to Charles on this) it seems very early and I suspect that you can run that engine for a long time especially if you play your cards right and take precautions. If it was my car I would switch to DT40 and change the oil very often. It would also be prudent to do oil analysis periodically to see how the numbers are trending and make sure they are not getting worse. At this point I don't see anything to immediately lose sleep over, just like I initially thought.
#83
@silver_tt @Petza914 @Charles Navarro Finally got oil results in from SPEEDiagnostix. See attached screenshot.
Only 847 miles on the sample, but would be very curious to hear your thoughts. Seems to say everything is in range.
Only 847 miles on the sample, but would be very curious to hear your thoughts. Seems to say everything is in range.
For this few miles, the only #s I don't like are the Iron & Copper and I'm seeing this a lot with this particular oil and it's usually main bearing wear that contributes those metals. I live to see single digit metal wear numbers across the board and that's at 4,000-5,000 mile change interval. If you were to run this oil at that interval, iron & Copper would both be way above that (iron is almost double digit at under 1,000 miles).
Based on a # of LM samples that have been posted, I don't think it's an oil that's a particularly good fit with these engines.
#84
@silver_tt @Petza914 @Charles Navarro Thanks for the input! Greatly appreciate your help (and everyone else who has chimed in!). Car has been running on DT40 ever since I took the sample a few weeks ago. Idles smoother than I can remember.
I did discover that I drove about 15-20 miles home with the oil cap off though since I topped off the oil post-change. Was wondering why it was running rough below 1,500 rpm....no CEL though. I'm assuming shouldn't have caused further damage? Can't believe I did that. I actually take great care of my cars! My N54-powered 335i with 218k miles still runs almost as smooth as when I picked it up new in Munich.
A co-worker said his dad may be interested in the car at a slight discount off market value...even though I made sure he understood there is the risk that the engine may need a rebuild down the road. Selling it seems like it may be the smart thing to do....even though I hate to think of giving it up. Haven't decided yet. Enjoying driving it this weekend while I still can.
I did discover that I drove about 15-20 miles home with the oil cap off though since I topped off the oil post-change. Was wondering why it was running rough below 1,500 rpm....no CEL though. I'm assuming shouldn't have caused further damage? Can't believe I did that. I actually take great care of my cars! My N54-powered 335i with 218k miles still runs almost as smooth as when I picked it up new in Munich.
A co-worker said his dad may be interested in the car at a slight discount off market value...even though I made sure he understood there is the risk that the engine may need a rebuild down the road. Selling it seems like it may be the smart thing to do....even though I hate to think of giving it up. Haven't decided yet. Enjoying driving it this weekend while I still can.