DJ Chongo

Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2009 turbo manual w/ 27k miles.
it is 'under' market value by maybe 15k, as the carfax notes there was an accident in 2012 causing damage to the right and back, and the car was towed.

I saw and drove the car a bit. The repair looks great, though of course will not ever be factory paint.

How will this effect the resale value if I need to sell it again? The carfax will have this listed forever, but over time does this become less of an issue, in an otherwise relatively rare car?

Also wondering, plan to use as daily driver, but hoping I can get away with street parking (there is an Ferrari FF parked nearby. Live in Manhattan, so don't have my own garage/space. Sometimes the car jockeys ding the car more than what happens in the street, and would rather detail it monthly rather than pay 600/month to park it and home and another $600/month to park at work!
Will you all yell at me to be super careful with this car, and really baby it?

mjposner

Did the airbags deploy? Was the frame inspected? An accident will always effect the resale value if I need to sell it again, same reason you are paying 15k below market now. Best you can do in the future to protect value is to find out how bad the accident was (police reports are available for a small fee), who did the repair, and have an independent body and frame inspection so that when you sell you can explain the what. how and why to show that the accident did not affect the value as much as some other accidents. I buy them if the airbag did not deploy and car looks good as new, but I expect a 20% decrease from retail.

DJ Chongo

thanks, that’s good to know.

The car is being sold by a Porsche dealership. They usually do not sell cars they cannot stand behind, but it isn’t CPO. Do you think I can assume they did a good once over before agreeing to buy the car to sell again (this is the second time the are selling it since the accident)?

Hi-Arc

Member has 2009 listed in classified for $38,000. great price. However, it was disclosed to be in accident with deer. Still for sale. I’m sure this would be sold without accident history.

PV997

I would tread cautiously as there are many unknowns here as mjposner points out. The fact it's being sold at a Porsche dealership doesn't really mean anything except it's no so trashed it would embarrass them to be on the lot. If there is no warranty then there really is nothing for them to stand behind. Sometimes high-end cars with accidents are inspected by independent shops who provide reports detailing the extent of the damage, frame measurements. etc. Do they have anything like this?

It's not my business but have you owned a car like this before? I'm asking as your post is sort of a laundry list of things I'd never do (car accident without damage report, kept outdoors, street parked in the city, borderline supercar with MT in Manhattan traffic). My risk tolerance may be much lower than yours but just want to make sure you've thought this through. Have you checked the cost of car insurance for non-garaged DD turbo in Manhattan? You may be shocked by the number.

Regardless, good luck with the search and hope things go well. I've got a 2010 turbo and it's an amazing car.

Doug H

For your purpose, one with a blemish on the Carfax with a discount is a great way to go.

There is nothing wrong with dinged cars provided they were properly repaired. I would be totally comfortable with it if the repairs were years old and there have been a lot of miles put on the car since.

I candidly think amount of loss in value we see on cars with minor wrecks that are properly repaired is a bit silly.

I like your attitude. Its just a car. Who cares if it is parked outside or gets door dings. My GTS pretty much only gets bathed when it goes to the dealer for something. Enjoy it and if already discounted due to a little paint work, now you can just have fun without obsessing about it.

Some of the guys here won't even let a valet touch their car which is nutzo to me.

My buddy and I took our ladies to dinner last night and I valeted my Performante and he valeted his Wraith. The difference in his car and my car is the Valet parked his right in front of the stand moving it only 10 feet forward and then took off in my Performante down the street and around the block (could hear it reverberating downtown between the buildings) and then brought it park to park it in front of the Wraith which he only drove 10 feet.
.

sandwedge

Well that's a good clue that the damage extended beyond the rear bumper. Guessing one of the rear quarter panels. Not a great place for a 911 to get hit since the car doesn't have separate rear quarter panels but quarter panels connected with the roof. Porsche will CPO cars with front or rear bumper damage provided no serious damage beyond the bumper cover and flawless repair and or paint work.

You need more details of what was involved in the accident. Also keep in mind that a lot of buyers won't even consider a car with a Carfax accident history, no matter how minor and for some, almost no matter how deep the discount. Has to be "accident free".

Doug H

Whether they would CPO may have zero to do with damage. Pretty sure they can certify with damage on 2 body panels other than bumper covers. I think they could CPO with damage/repairs/repaint to both rear quarter panels.

The car could be an awesome car, but have needs approaching making the cost to certify not feasible. Tires could be at 5/32s, brakes could still have 20k miles, but be below certification spec and/or the car could need a service fairly soon.

The biggie will be how much they have in the car and whether they can cover CPO costs and still sell for a profit.

They would likely wholesell and not mess with it at all if it had serious body damage and repairs were less than perfect mechanically.

RE: Repaired Cars

Dude, I have seriously torn up some 911scovervthecyears both on and off the race track and had the rebuilt for the racetrack where they actually needed to be more perfect than they would need to be for Sunday drives on public roads.

Get a PPI, test drive and take to a body shop if that concerned and have them look at it. If damage is several years old and people are putting miles on it after the repairs, I would not sweat it unless looking for a garage queen that will rarely be driven and if getting top dolllar on resell is a priority.

mjposner

Doug H nailed it, "Get a PPI, test drive and take to a body shop if that concerned and have them look at it." However, I know many Porsche dealers will not allow this. If not, at least get a mobile inspector to kook under the car and the panels to determine quality of the repair. Look at tire wear, may reveal frame damage.

Car is already discounted 15% due to accident, makes sense that dealer would not cpo. What dealers keep is sometime a mystery. My 2016 M4 I traded in to a BMW dealer went straight to private dealer and only had a parked accident (2k repair).

On the converse side I bought a 09 M3 for $43k knowing it had one accident, drove 1.5, flood damage totaled car and I got $46k from insurance company since that was what the average value car was worth.

Petza914

For your use case, if the car checks out, I'd go for it. The smiles per dollar on a tutbonthats 15% below market value would be a great experience. Just know that in NYC it's going to get trashed on both the roads and the parking situation, and although you're buying it cheap, its still a $200k car when it comes to having it repaired for parts and labor.

groovzilla

In my opinion, after 40 years of buying and selling many Porsche's, best way to determine accident damage vs value is this way:
The more Market Value the car has, the more the accident damage will effect resale value and ability to sell car.

Example - A 997 Turbo's Market Value will be greatly effected if it has accident damage and limit the number of buyers who will want it. The asking price will have to be greatly reduced for someone to buy it. Higher end market shoppers get more finicky and are more critical/concerned. Even bumper repaint can be a big deal and cause someone to "pass" on a sale.
Less expensive base 996 or 997 cars with accident damage will have buyers who aren't as concerned or picky and tend to not be as concerned with previous damage.

DJ Chongo

@Doug H appreciate your notes, too.

Today I saw an Aston and a 991 by central park, just parked there on the street overnight and all day.
In my area there's this FF and another 991.

There are definitely some others who also street park.
I'm sure there are some disaster stories out there, but wondering how often that happens.

Just like Doug H's story, do we trust the parking guy with keys and full control of your wheels, or do you trust the public/street?

DJ Chongo

Thanks all

@groovzilla That makes sense to me. It's either Mint condition, or it's not.

If 997 manual turbos were to double one day, this one with a ding on the carfax won't quite be there with the others.
Which is less pressure for me! I don't have to baby it quite as much now!

DJ Chongo

Yes, this is why I was late pulling the trigger on a gorgeous 997.2 dark blue metallic carrera 4 GTS that was well priced.
I have to be ok with the high risk of this car getting dinged - which is why a pre-dinged car makes me feel a bit better.

BTW, we took the paint-tester out on the car, the the left rear quarter panel was still a '4', like the the right and the roof. There was wrap on other parts so hard to know, but I'm told a '4' is typically considered factory paint.

So we concluded it was bumper replacement.

Petza914

Neither. I'll never valet. If I stay at a hotel that is valet only, I'll either take my pickup truck or if on a family vacation in the widebody Cayenne I'll call the hotel in advance and get preauthorizatiion from the hotel and valet managers for either my wife or I to ride with the valet to the parking garage.

If there is only street parking and not a lot or garage, I'll drive something else. I also don't live in NYC and never would so I normally have more than just the 2 choices of street or valet.

I have actually seen first hand valet disasters. In Reno a guy drops his car at the front of the hotel and the new valet proceeds to drive it directly over the curb and rip off the front spoiler. Watched another one back into a car that had pulled up behind him that wasn't there when he got in to move the front car. No thanks.