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Aluminum and iron are both quite high for only 2,600 miles on the oil. For reference, at 4,000-5,000 miles I never see double digit metal ppm numbers on either of my 997.1 cars. I'd keep an eye on it and continue to to run the Blackstone analysis. If they stay high like this you'll need to get more invasive by pulling the sump and scoping the cylinders. Aluminum can really only come from the pistons and cylinders. Iron is usually bearings, but usually has copper accompanying it.
I also agree with LexVan that those cold and hot viscosities are much higher than M1 0w/40. What's in there looks like maybe a 10/50 or 15/50 weight oil which is too thick for these motors for both cold start flow and the variocam system.
I hate to say it, and sometimes think the worst, but it looks like this is the first oil change since you bought the car and from the viscosity numbers, the PO or dealer may have put a much heavier oil into the engine to mask a knocking sound that may have been present with the proper weight oil.
Pete is spot on. I'll just reiterate this is a perfect example of Blackstone not knowing anything about Porsche engines, this one specifically. They always say to check your air filter whenever I see these UOAs from them on engines with bore scoring. The elevated aluminum, silicon, and now iron levels (ring wear) point to cylinder bore scoring. It's time to scope the bores.
I agree that someone probably put in a thicker oil based on the reported viscosity. M1 0w40 is usually at the bottom end of viscosity for a 40 weight so there is no way that is what is in there.
Thanks so much for the help so far. This is bizarre, I am almost 100% positive it is Mobil1 0w-40. Could there be another explanation for the numbers?
Looking back on my records: When I bought the car at 37,334 they said they had done a fresh oil change. I called the service dept. later to ask what kind and they said they use Mobil 1 0w-40 since it was specced by Porsche.
When it hit 40,700, I had my 40k service done. I brought the Mobil 1 with me. I would assume they used it. They didn’t charge me for oil. Reputable shop, and it is in the service records as them using ‘client supplied oil and magnetic drain plug’. At that time they also changed the engine air filter. I didn’t do an analysis at this time.
At 43,302 I took it in and had the oil changed and the Blackstone analysis done. I also brought the Mobil1 0w-40 with me which is in there now.
Looking back on past records before I owned the car:
At 30,681 they did an oil changed and used 5w40 Motul 8100 Xcess BMW LL-01/Porsche. 8.25 qt
At 33,723 they did an oil changed and used 5w40 Motul 8100 Xcess BMW LL-01/Porsche. 8.25 qt
On these two oil changes, it was noted that they cut open the oil filter to check for metal and/or bearing debris. There was no mention of anything being found.
Lastly, before I bought it, I called the previous owner’s shop and asked if there was anything on record as needing repair or any other immediate or future concerns. They said no, everything was up to date and looked good.
Thank you! I have seen anywhere from 1.27-1.71 in my samples sent to SpeeDiagnostix.
And keep in mind that if you are using Blackstone for UOA you really don't know what Fuel Dilution you have. Blackstone "estimates" Fuel Dilution based on Flash Point. Labs like Polaris (accessed by buying an Oil Test Kit from Amsoil, for one) use Gas Chromatography to make an actual measurement of Fuel Dilution.
As Charles indicates, this seems to be considered as normal for DFI engines. Polaris characterizes my Fuel Dilution, usually around 2.2% after 5,000km, as being at a "minor" level. But, at 2.5% they call it "moderate".
09 997.2 Base. The only oil leaking is sweat from all that horsepower
Great report. The only thing I'll mention is that I'd run the oil a slightly sklhorter I terval becuaw it became a bit acidic before yiu changed it (Total Acid Number greater than Total Base Number). At 5,000 miles, those numbers would have been reversed.
2010 base. First oil change about 5-6 months after I purchased it CPO from a dealer in September 2020. I assume it was Mobil 1 fill.
Now you have your base-line report. Keep doing them. Your report illustrates why many don't want to run Mobil 0W40, as you can see the sheering at only 2,500 miles on the oil. Don't waste your money on future additional tests for TBN and TAN. Spend that saved money on a better oil. You're not trying to extend the drain interval, so those extra tests are unnecessary IMO.
Thanks! Yes, I plan to continue with the tests, but perhaps with the analysis company that Flat 6 or LN recommends, instead of Blackstone. Where do you see the sheering numbers, so I know? Also, do the elevated Boron numbers mean anything?
For this change, I flushed with BR40, filled with LiquiMoly 0w40, and added one bottle of Ceratec. I would change with DI40, but it's not A40 spec and I'm still under CPO warranty. It'll be interesting to see the next change in 6 months.
Originally Posted by LexVan
Now you have your base-line report. Keep doing them. Your report illustrates why many don't want to run Mobil 0W40, as you can see the sheering at only 2,500 miles on the oil. Don't waste your money on future additional tests for TBN and TAN. Spend that saved money on a better oil. You're not trying to extend the drain interval, so those extra tests are unnecessary IMO.
The low viscosity could well be due to Fuel Dilution. The DFI engines just do put Fuel into the oil, the question is how much. Blackstone does not measure Fuel Dilution directly. They make a guess based on Flashpoint, and I'm surprised they didn't call Fuel Dilution on your sample with that Flashpoint, but they are very inconsistent in what they say the Flashpoint "should be". Polaris is one lab that measures Fuel Dilution using Gas Chromatography and that is a direct measure. If you buy an oil test kit from Amsoil, among others (e.g. Cummins) your sample goes to Polaris.
Interesting to see the TBN (delta 5.4) compared to the previous UOA with 350 less miles, with the TAN only increasing a point. 5K does appear to be the sweet spot for the ability of the oil to neutralize the acids.
Stupid question after a stupid mistake: I just changed the oil in my 997.2S, but I let it drain into my unclean oil container with an unclean lid (why didn't I take a few minutes and clean it first?). I assume the contamination is a pretty small percentage of the ~8 quarts of oil in there, but could it be enough to screw up the results? Of course, is this question even answerable, since I have no way of knowing how much gunk was there? (it's been a few years since I've used that container, but it's been stored in the garage) I'm trying to decide if I should send in a sample to Blackstone, or wait and be more careful next time.
You'll never be able to trust that sample. I'd admit failure and wait until next time, capturing the sample directly from the flow at about the mid point in the drain.
Interesting to see the TBN (delta 5.4) compared to the previous UOA with 350 less miles, with the TAN only increasing a point. 5K does appear to be the sweet spot for the ability of the oil to neutralize the acids.
Exactly. We did this testing 15+ years ago when we came up with our recommendation for 6 months or 5,000 miles. This would apply to A40 oils as well as DT40 that are designed to replace it. I would likewise feel comfortable making the same statement for C40 approved oils or DI40 as well.
Im not in north america so got a company that does UOA locally. Could someone take a look and tell me what they see? I dont understand it and comparing to blackstone it seem like they use different units of measurement?
Oil Motul xcess 8100 5w40. 5000 miles on the oil. Added about a quart in the 5k miles.
02-06-2021, 11:28 AM
