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As part of my post on repairing a PDK (link), I'm thinking about buying a Chinese PIWIS 2 knock-off to help unravel some mysteries. Porsche has behaved so unethically IMO (withholding PDK repair info, almost no replacement parts) that I have few moral qualms about buying what is very likely pirated software. Not to mention that China is Porsche's number one market worldwide, and Porsche knew the rule of law was non-existent when they decided to do business there. The PIWIS instruction manual I downloaded from the Chinese website appears to be a copy of an actual Porsche document.
The hardware and software is about $500 as found at this link here, I'll use my own computer:
Anyone have any experience with any of these of know an Indy who uses them? Unlike the Durametric this should provide PDK commanding and calibration options. The Chinese website says you get free software updates for a year then have to pay for updates after that. Are updates required for the unit to keep working after a year? I'm going to email the seller but any insight would be appreciated.
So let me get this straight. You're pissed at Porsche for doing something you deem unethical and that has convinced you to possibly do something equally unethical with the purchase of this counterfeit? And, now you come on a public forum to ask for guidance!?
Good luck!
Thanks for the pontification it was very helpful!
Yes, I'm coming on a public forum to ask for help to figure out how they can replace a $30 part in their "failed" PDK transmission rather than pay $20 thousand to Porsche for a new one. Unlike you, I've actually studied this issue in detail. It's clear Porsche made a calculated business decision based on customer demographics (affluent, white collar, unlikely to get their hands dirty) to pretend this transmission was unfixable because they knew they could get away with it. It's a lie, the transmission is very repairable and there is no justification for it being sealed. What Porsche is doing likely violates consumer protection laws in the US but no one has held them accountable.
I'm using the software for my own use, to read and set my own codes, on my own car, at my own risk. I'm doing this to better understand how the PDK works to help inform other who aren't willing to bend over and take it when the dealership tells them they need to drop $20k on a new transmission. I'm not looking to set up a PIWIS counterfeiting ring for crying out loud. Good grief, this board has lots of great commenters and some amazing people but some folks really take the cake.
If you'd actually like to understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it read my sticky "guide to repairing a pdk transmission".
Following. I will be very interested what experience people have had with these clones. As I understand it, the genuine PIWIS requires unlocking of several features only granted by Porsche Germany Curious if there clones have unlocked some of these features
No personal experience. On auto repair pages outside the US, these are fairly common (anecdotal). Seems others also feel an $18K diagnostic unit to troubleshoot an $18K tranny is a $tupid way to fix a $20 sensor....or maybe it's just that when a company tries to distort a market, into the breach steps the Darwinian capitalist.
On these pages have seen noted where the Samtec board is preferred, and to run the system on a VM as the scanner and software running together is a memory hog and can cause a crash requiring a BIOS reboot. Have seen a similar ad from a Euro supplier, see attached. Best of luck in the search.
I have few moral qualms about buying what is very likely pirated software.
So let me get this straight. You're pissed at Porsche for doing something you deem unethical and that has convinced you to possibly do something equally unethical with the purchase of this counterfeit? And, now you come on a public forum to ask for guidance!?
Originally Posted by PV997
Not to mention that China is Porsche's number one market worldwide, and Porsche knew the rule of law was non-existent when they decided to do business there. The PIWIS instruction manual I downloaded from the Chinese website appears to be a copy of an actual Porsche document.
Personally, I think the ol' adage proves true in this situation... "A fool and his money are soon departed". hahaha Seriously, you're better off buying a Durametric or paying a shop to run the car on their PIWIS. Seems like I remember reading many threads where people got burned buying the Chinese PIWIS knock offs thinking they would have the same capability as the real deal.
Good luck!
Last edited by NuttyProfessor; 01-04-2020 at 09:33 PM.
Reason: adding quote for context
So let me get this straight. You're pissed at Porsche for doing something you deem unethical and that has convinced you to possibly do something equally unethical with the purchase of this counterfeit? And, now you come on a public forum to ask for guidance!?
Good luck!
Thanks for the pontification it was very helpful!
Yes, I'm coming on a public forum to ask for help to figure out how they can replace a $30 part in their "failed" PDK transmission rather than pay $20 thousand to Porsche for a new one. Unlike you, I've actually studied this issue in detail. It's clear Porsche made a calculated business decision based on customer demographics (affluent, white collar, unlikely to get their hands dirty) to pretend this transmission was unfixable because they knew they could get away with it. It's a lie, the transmission is very repairable and there is no justification for it being sealed. What Porsche is doing likely violates consumer protection laws in the US but no one has held them accountable.
I'm using the software for my own use, to read and set my own codes, on my own car, at my own risk. I'm doing this to better understand how the PDK works to help inform other who aren't willing to bend over and take it when the dealership tells them they need to drop $20k on a new transmission. I'm not looking to set up a PIWIS counterfeiting ring for crying out loud. Good grief, this board has lots of great commenters and some amazing people but some folks really take the cake.
If you'd actually like to understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it read my sticky "guide to repairing a pdk transmission".
Last edited by PV997; 01-04-2020 at 12:36 PM.
Reason: response was a little too over the top
No personal experience. On auto repair pages outside the US, these are fairly common (anecdotal). Seems others also feel an $18K diagnostic unit to troubleshoot an $18K tranny is a $tupid way to fix a $20 sensor....or maybe it's just that when a company tries to distort a market, into the breach steps the Darwinian capitalist.
On these pages have seen noted where the Samtec board is preferred, and to run the system on a VM as the scanner and software running together is a memory hog and can cause a crash requiring a BIOS reboot. Have seen a similar ad from a Euro supplier, see attached. Best of luck in the search.
Thanks tapcon. I found the software and am going to run it in simulation mode (without hardware) as a VM first to see if supports the PDK functions I'm looking for. If that looks good I'll likely buy the Samtec. Once I get things running I'll post some screen shots.
Okay, this is looking very encouraging. I'm running the software in simulation mode and found you can read the specific values for the various pdk sensors, here's a screenshot:
Those "11070" are simulated values as I'm not actually connected to the car. This has already shown me I made an error in my post as I thought the pressure regulator control was the same for the clutch and the gears and it's not. The clutch uses odd/even (1,3,5,7 and 2,4,6) whereas the gear shift uses the pattern shown above. I'll update my main post.
As to running the software I followed the directions at the link below and they worked beautifully. I did need to enable virtualization in my BIOS which is not mentioned in the post. I'm running Linux but the post used windows and both seem to work fine.
So let me get this straight. You're pissed at Porsche for doing something you deem unethical and that has convinced you to possibly do something equally unethical with the purchase of this counterfeit? And, now you come on a public forum to ask for guidance!?
Personally, I think the ol' adage proves true in this situation... "A fool and his money are soon departed". hahaha Seriously, you're better off buying a Durametric or paying a shop to run the car on their PIWIS. Seems like I remember reading many threads where people got burned buying the Chinese PIWIS knock offs thinking they would have the same capability as the real deal.
Good luck!
Huh, that pretty dang silly. I don’t think he is violating any laws purchasing this, but I also recall hearing they might now work as well either. It could have been a one complaint or a crappy unit sent to someone or it could have just been bs.
I think it pretty cool what you are doing. More power to you.
So let me get this straight. You're pissed at Porsche for doing something you deem unethical and that has convinced you to possibly do something equally unethical with the purchase of this counterfeit? And, now you come on a public forum to ask for guidance!?
Personally, I think the ol' adage proves true in this situation... "A fool and his money are soon departed". hahaha Seriously, you're better off buying a Durametric or paying a shop to run the car on their PIWIS. Seems like I remember reading many threads where people got burned buying the Chinese PIWIS knock offs thinking they would have the same capability as the real deal.
Good luck!
Apparently PIWIS is really expensive so even my local indy (the only Porsche specialist in the whole city) doesn't have the latest version. As a result, even my 997.2 will need a visit to the OPC for any work that requires PIWIS.
This includes activating a new cruise control, which should be easy and simple. Not if you don't have the latest PIWIS. Want to change your PDK oil? Yep, need PIWIS again.
Sometimes corporations did things to just make more and more money.
Huh, that pretty dang silly. I don’t think he is violating any laws purchasing this,
Please bear with this analogy...
You spent the last 2-3 years writing a software program that would be used by professionals in your industry. You set the price competitively for $500. You spend thousands of your own money in marketing. You release it January and it starts selling very well. By March, you're notified by a colleague that apparently a Chinese company has ripped off the code and reselling the software for just $50 each. They've robbed ever square inch of your work. Sales drop and not long after that, you notice that Chinese copies are circulating the forums. People are jumping on the $50 deal and unfortunately, that has left you with nothing.
How would that make you feel? What would be your next steps? Do you think there is some responsibility on the hands of the end users that are buying the illegal copies?
Well, if you think not, I would love to point some of students to you that thought it was okay to use Napster. All of them were caught on campus and put in prison. That's a fact. I could give you many more examples - videos, text books, etc. On and on it goes. All the perpetrators had the opinion of the OP. That is.. "How dare them screw me over with a $200 text book!!! I'll just use the Main Library's copying machines and make my own textbooks!" Famous last words of a copyright thief.
And folks, just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I'm out to get the OP or be a troll. I just don't always follow the same drum beat on every issue, no reason to cry foul.
Last time I asked, service centers had to pay $20,000 per year for a single license to the PIWIS system. Apparently, the new versions have to connect the PIWIS device to a main portal for authentication every time it's used.
Wow. I sure hope the holier-than-thou types don't click on the painstaking PDK documentation thread the OP created and is apparently important enough for the moderators to sticky...
I love the work you're doing, PV997. If I had a great need for it, I would totally get the PIWIS clone. Exitus acta probat.
Wow. I sure hope the holier-than-thou types don't click on the painstaking PDK documentation thread the OP created and is apparently important enough for the moderators to sticky...
I love the work you're doing, PV997. If I had a great need for it, I would totally get the PIWIS clone. Exitus acta probat.
I know right. If his shyte dies, he can go to Porsche and pay $18k for a new transmission on principle. Hopefully, we will have the $20 replacement part option thanks to people like OP taking the initiative.
Lol, I have a feeling I know what Nutty would do when confronted with $18k replacement or $100 repair! His principles would be taking a nap on napster.
Here are several different economical options for PIWIS:
I know right. If his shyte dies, he can go to Porsche and pay $18k for a new transmission on principle. Hopefully, we will have the $20 replacement part option thanks to people like OP taking the initiative. Lol, I have a feeling I know what Nutty would do when confronted with $18k replacement or $100 repair! His principles would be taking a nap on napster.
Doug, if I remember correctly, you're a product liability lawyer, is that right? Therefore, you've made an oath to uphold the law as an agent of the court, correct? Do you believe in patent and copyright law?
It's not against the law to put a price on a product or service even if it's outrageous, correct? Therefore, if we disagree with the price of a product or service, we have the right to take our business elsewhere, correct? And because something is "overpriced", that doesn't give anyone the right to copy it without permission, wouldn't you agree?
Then why burn me to the stake or act like "my principles" are out of touch?
First of all, I applaud PV997's efforts to find a solution to the pdk problem. I know all about Porsche problems... I'm a 996 owner! Heck, the first thing I did was put Jake Raby's IMS Solution invention into my car and it came at a price. I didn't try to find a copycat product. I gladly paid what I believe is the best product. And yes, I've personally experienced failure of an expensive automatic transmission on one of my cars. (Sorry, my Porsche is a manual) But the car was very expensive and the transmission grenaded itself at very low miles. I took the car to the dealership and the service advisor, said "Sorry sir, but those transmissions are non-serviceable and it will have to be replaced." They wanted $7,000 for another transmission plus labor. I asked to speak with the service manager. He came over and I said, "Let's cut the BS, please tell me why you wont service a transmission and why the only option is replacement?" He went on to say that it was policy because they could NOT warranty the work AND they didn't have a trained technician to do invasive work on transmissions. Replacement would minimize any liability on the part of the dealership or brand if the replacement failed. Therefore, we took our business elsewhere. Yes, believe it or not, Nutty Professor didn't drink the Kool Aid and walked out of the door. After that, I took some time calling around and found a respected transmission specialist. He repaired the transmission for just $1,400.00. Car ran beautifully!
Now, one last time, I'm not against the OP's efforts, but I wouldn't give any person or group money for a counterfeit product. IMHO, find another way. Heck, I've heard many people have gotten independent shops to allow a free hookup on the PIWIS especially if it turns into a business opportunity. Maybe PV997 can explain the PDK endeavor to some of the shops in his area or local PCA, and maybe someone will lend access to their PIWIS system?
01-03-2020, 05:19 PM
Chinese PIWIS clone
