The DFI engines are bulletproof. Enjoy the steep discount, buy the car, and enjoy it. Clutch is going to the only maintenance issue.

 

True that you should get the mechanic's opinion... Mine told me that if I didn't buy the car, he would!!! I took that positively😁 So make sure you have a minute to talk with the guy to get his opinion. That is what you are paying for.

 

Hi All,

I decided to buy the car, thanks for all the replies.

As a reminder it is a 997.2, 2010 Carrera 4S with a 6-speed manual and 86k miles on the odometer. It is in meteor gray metallic with full black leather and has the Porsche crests in the headrest. It comes equipped with .1 Turbo wheels (I know not necessarily a forum favorite on Carreras), Sports Crono, PSE and a Sharkwerks third muffler bypass system. I would say the exterior is a 9.9/10 and the interior a 9 to 9.5 / 10. The Carfax revealed some damage to the rear bumper, but it was reportedly minor and I could not visually tell at all. I paid $44,150 plus a few hundred in fees. It will be shipped to me via enclosed trailer sometime in the next week or two.

I started this thread because I wanted to know that at 85k miles I could still expect years of future reliability (within reason) even when driven spiritedly as a Porsche should be. It won't be a daily driver, but I am guessing I will put 2k+ miles a year on it (now that my kids drive, I don't drive as many miles in general as I did a few years back)

Recall I got myself distressed over the possibility of bore scoring (thanks internet) and have since learned that, yes, bore scoring happens to 9A1 engines, though not nearly at the frequency that it afflicts the M96/M97 engines.

I did have a PPI performed and the tech said the car was absolutely fine, but I still remained paranoid. I even called him again to verify that the engine sounded normal, and at that time I did learn he did visually check the oil (black oil is a sign of bore score) because that would have required loosening the oil filter or drain plug.

I mentioned I was going to post a video of the car idling to get consensus that it sounded normal. I decided that any disagreement in the comments would distress me further. So instead I opened a ticket with Flat 6 Innovations and sent the video to them. I appears that Jake Raby himself answered and indicated that he watched the videos, but told me that he could not give me his opinion either way due to past issues with potential litigation. He advised that I get a bore scope before buying the car. This did nothing to ease my mind. At any rate I didn't think the seller would agree to that invasive of a procedure and there were other buyers nipping at my heels. I tried not to read too much into Jake's answer, but I asked myself who would litigate if his advice was to "walk away". But I decided not to speculate. Instead after watching other videos of 997.2 engines, I became more convinced that the car in question was normal. After all, I pretty much just invented the "problem" in my head out of paranoia.

I don't want to turn this thread into a bore scoring discussion, but after reading many other threads, it was apparent that the "majority" of bore scoring (in 997.1 engines at least) occurred in cold weather climates and in specific regions. In one thread Jake Raby commented that he could almost predict the rate of incoming bore scoring incidents each April (damaged the previous winter) and that this would continue until it leveled off in June/July. He also made a comment on a post that the piston became too big for the cylinder in 10 F degree weather (M97 metallurgy is different than the 9A1). Ultimately I read that bore scoring was a perfect storm that had something to do with cold weather, winter blend fuel mixtures (more common in the Midwest than the Northeast) and other mysterious factors. I don't know if this all true for the 9A1 engine which mostly scores in cylinder number 1 perhaps due to fuel injector spraying washing the thin film of oil away. (You would think that after 100 years of ICE engine development in the world, that Porsche would get the most fundamental function of the piston moving up and down in the cylinder right, but even 991 engines can have bore scoring)

All that aside, the car I am buying was first purchased in Florida, then lived in South Carolina, and for the past 7 years has been in Houston, Texas. So all warm weather states which should really reduce the chances of bore scoring which is already pretty low in the 9A1 (assuming failure modalities are similar to the M97). Initially, I was considering buying winter tires to enjoy all the blue sky, dry, but cold days in Colorado, but now I am inclined to not drive the car below 45 F degrees anyway to be safe.

Finally, I am considering a LaSalle Warranty - this is the only warranty company that Jake Raby recommends. I confirmed with him directly that this company has paid to replace a bore scored 997 engine in the past. I was concerned because the warranty does not explicitly cover cylinders, but as we know, the cylinder is a victim of the root cause piston skirt failure which then causes the scoring. This would also protect against rod bearing failure and any timing chain issues. I know many people think 3rd party warranties are a waste, but for $3500-ish, but I am considering it as a nice insurance policy against a potential $20k-$25k engine rebuild.

I also know many of you would say don't buy the car if you are going to worry about it, but I am just trying to be prudent, I am kind of wired that way. But I also know from my personal history that the buying process is the most stressful for me and once I own something I don't nearly worry about it as much as when I was buying it.

I am looking forward to enjoying ownership (my first Porsche) and I will post pictures and impressions in a new Thread as appears to be the custom here!

Thanks again!
Alan

 

Congratulations Alan

If you get a chance update everyone on your LaSalle warranty research. I bought a Fidelity Platinum on my 2012, but I don't know the cutoff point and what they require. If you just paid for a PPI that may be useful to a warranty company to get coverage. Sounds like a beautiful car. Hope you dig it.

 

PICS!!!!!

 

agil, congrats on the new 4S. Sounds like a real beauty but we need pics or it didn't happen. lol. If a warranty gives you peace of mind and helps you enjoy the car then I would recommend you do it. And by the way I am a fan of the .1 turbo wheels.

 

First off, congratulations on your purchase. Grin on your face every time you get in it.

Never heard of La Salle Warranty but that doesn't mean anything. Could be a great insurer. Compare it to Fidelity's Platinum policy though. I've bought several policies from them over the years and they never disappointed (no affiliation). What you want is an exclusionary policy that specifies what they DON'T cover. Not what they DO cover. Too many loopholes and ways outs for them with those.

I have to say, $3,500 or even close to it sounds very inexpensive for an exclusionary policy for a 2010 C4S with 85,000 miles. I recently paid $5,600 for a Fidelity Platinum policy for my 2011 GTS with 62,000 miles on it. If you're concerned about what's covered and what isn't, I would take a close look at the La Salle policy. At the price you're getting it for and the miles on your car it's almost impossible to believe you're getting full engine and transmission coverage but something less with some or a lot of exclusions. I hope I'm wrong but it sounds awfully inexpensive for the coverage you want for the car you have and the mileage that's on it.

 

I am glad you could weave your way through all of the online paranoia and get comfortable with this car. Post some pics ASAP.

BTW, if Jake is worried about getting sued, it would be by a buyer where Jake said the car sounded fine, not where he said to walk away. I don't know how any reputable mechanic would feel comfortable going on the record with a buy/don't buy recommendation just off of a recording of the sound of the car.

Bore scoping is an important aspect of a PPI on these cars and isn't particularly hard to do for a competent mechanic. I would have asked the seller for that, and would have been willing to pay for it. I'd walk away from a car where the seller said no. But, if your warranty covers the very remote chance of bore scoring, then that's a non-issue as well.

If it makes you feel any better, my '09 has almost 84k miles on it and I just spent a bunch of money on it with some suspension mods and new parts--the point being that I have faith in its reliability at that mileage and am not scared to invest in it for the long-haul. My Carrera has been a very reliable and fun car.

Congratulations on your new car!

 

IMO the easiest way to sell a higher mileage car is to have an example that is in excellent condition with no accidents, no paintwork and great options with recent expensive services like clutch/brakes/etc performed recently.
Here's an example of what I an referring to - My 2002 996 C4S w/111K miles I sold on Bring A Trailer 3 years ago.
Sold for top dollar market value in 2016 at $26K - It was garage kept and stunning - like most cars I buy:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-4/

 

Hi All,

A few pictures for those that asked... though I will still do a new thread when I actually get the car in 2 weeks or so!

Thanks for the recommendation on the Fidelity warranty, I will look into it as well. Technically LaSalle won't cover this car because of age and mileage, but his associated is quoting me a warranty from Auto Advantage and he has rave reviews on the BBB as well. It is a $3,478 for 3 years and 50k additional miles or $3,828 for 5 years and 75,000 additonal miles. These are drive train components only - all internal lubricated parts. I already confirmed he works with Flat 6 Innovations. However, I have not fully decided yet. Again, I do not necessarily anticipate breaking even on the warranty, but rather would purchase it as insurance against something catastrophic such as damaged piston skirts causing bore scoring.





Alan

 

Now I know why you bought it. It's beautiful. The Fidelity Platinum warranty is the same as the Audi service plan and I think most people think it's the best of the best. There's a guy that sells them here as a big discount...I forget his name. Here's the thread https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post15915753

 

When things go sideways, the person with the most to lose gets the finger pointed at them. I stopped answering any questions about what cars to buy/ stay away from, or offering consultations to buyers a couple of years ago. I also stopped providing PPI services.

I don't give problems a chance to bring me into them. Unless someone buys an engine from me, I have no service to offer. That's the way it has to be.

I'm the wrong guy to contact if you are looking to hear, what you want to hear. No unicorns or rainbows around here.

 

Jake,

I totally understand and respect your position. Obviously, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense.

When I said "this did nothing to ease my mind", it was not meant to insinuate that you had any obligation to do so, but rather it was simply the state of mind I was left in by not anticipating the very reasonable response you gave me and still having to wonder if I was making the right decision.

Alan

 

I get the same message that you submitted at least 10X per week. Everyone seems to want to be told that they are making the right decision, and they want the purchase to be "blessed" it seems.

It really blows people's minds when i tell them the best car they can buy is the one with a blown engine, which I totally believe is the best way to purchase one of these cars. One man's trash is another's treasure. Buy the car right, and build the only engine that you can trust.

I've never owned a Porsche personally that didn't have a failed engine, if I bring a car home that runs, my wife thinks that I am sick.

 

Michael Jourdan: mjourdan@mossymotors.com

He seems to prefer text communication though. His cell # that I have is 504-826-5330. Somehow he manages to sell Fidelity policies including Platinum coverage at about a 40% discount to market. I've bought two policies from him. No tricks or games. Genuine Fidelity policies at a deep discount. I don't care how he manages the discounts he's offering as long as what he sells is the real deal which it is. At least it has been for me. Really nice and professional guy to deal with.