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BMW's mechanical prowess are quite solid as in their inline six and their flat twin motorcycle engines. Its their electronics that need revamping all the time.
BMW's mechanical prowess are quite solid as in their inline six and their flat twin motorcycle engines. Its their electronics that need revamping all the time.
I had a 2008 BMW 535 and , reliability wise, it was a disaster. Under warranty they replaced a turbo and waste gate, vanos solenoid, high pressure fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure sensor. At 40K miles it was really falling apart. It also had a second rate factory paint job. Never drive a BMW unless it is covered by a warranty. Luckily, I had the standard suspension with all season tires so I did not have to deal with runflats, bent rims and destroyed tires. When the engine was running well it was great but the dealer had the car often and I was left driving 328 loaners with runflats. I guess they need to have a strong warranty while their cars are being leased.
I had a 2008 BMW 535 and , reliability wise, it was a disaster. Under warranty they replaced a turbo and waste gate, vanos solenoid, high pressure fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure sensor. At 40K miles it was really falling apart. It also had a second rate factory paint job. Never drive a BMW unless it is covered by a warranty. Luckily, I had the standard suspension with all season tires so I did not have to deal with runflats, bent rims and destroyed tires. When the engine was running well it was great but the dealer had the car often and I was left driving 328 loaners with runflats. I guess they need to have a strong warranty while their cars are being leased.
+1. BMWs are always inexpensive after their manufacture’s warranty expires.
Now back from a holiday that made internet access difficult (and that I was reluctant to broadcast to all and sundry) I am ready to finish the report I will make available on bore scoring soon.
Regarding warm up - I think the best way is to start the engine and drive off but not on full throttle and full revs until everything has warmed up. The M96/7 engines have the top and bottom of the cylinders free to flex and more bore clearance (especially when they go oval in the thrust direction) and the pistons are moderately oval - so can take earlier full throttle.
The 9A1 Gen 2 has fatter and tighter pistons, more rigid top and bottom cylinders and a comparatively massive lump of alloy cast into the bottom of the cylinder that will take longer to warm up than the upper cylinders - so needs longer to expand all the way down to the bottom.
Also the M96/7 KS cast pistons had the hard ferrous coating (that resists scoring) and the Mahle replacements (later 3.4's Cayman 3.4 S, 3.6 and 3.8 engines had forged pistons with a plastic coating. The Gen 2 9A1 also has forged pistons but a different coating (ferrotech) which we have tested in Lokasil and found netter than plastic coatings but not as durable as the old ferrostan hard iron coating - and this may influence the way the 9A1 piston reacts to running tight especially if (as we have proposed) the bores are closing in on some cylinders and some engines to squeeze the pistons near to their operating clearance limits.
Thanks Baz. Appreciate the information. Most of us bought these baby's used and stuff like this is scary! I warm up my C4S idling in the driveway until temp climbs just over 100 deg (2-3 minutes) so I know there is warm water running around in there. Then I drive it easy until it reaches operating temp. I look forward to your report.
Thanks Baz. Appreciate the information. Most of us bought these baby's used and stuff like this is scary! I warm up my C4S idling in the driveway until temp climbs just over 100 deg (2-3 minutes) so I know there is warm water running around in there. Then I drive it easy until it reaches operating temp. I look forward to your report.
You're idling in the driveway far too long - essentially through the whole enrichmnent cycle to warm up the cats. Start it, wait until the idle drops from 1,200 to 800 (maybe 15 seconds) and drive away.
I think that the experts have conveyed to us that it is the oil temperature that is an indicator of when the engine is fully warmed up, not coolant temp. It takes my 997.2 engine about 12 to 15 easy miles on the freeway to get oil temp up. The water temp shoots up very quickly.
I posted this before. Car was parked outside all night with ambient temp 32 degrees F when I started it up. Data from Durametric. Oil temp lags water temp by about 4 minutes once water temp hit 180... some of that 4 minutes it looks like I was at a red light.
I think that the experts have conveyed to us that it is the oil temperature that is an indicator of when the engine is fully warmed up, not coolant temp. It takes my 997.2 engine about 12 to 15 easy miles on the freeway to get oil temp up. The water temp shoots up very quickly.
This!!! And no excessive time idling before gentle operation as Petza points out.
You're idling in the driveway far too long - essentially through the whole enrichmnent cycle to warm up the cats. Start it, wait until the idle drops from 1,200 to 800 (maybe 15 seconds) and drive away.
Spot on.
As a separate followup, we had Ceratec tested to see exactly what it is. As we figured, it a super concentrated moly additive. Here are the test results:
As I've told many of you who have emailed me, I wouldn't use this product with any oil other than Liqui-Moly's oils, because of fear of additive clash.
The standard A40 additive package used by most manufacturers has 0 to 50ppm of moly.
For comparison, DT40 has 600ppm and DI40 has 300ppm of MoDTC (moly).
Based off multiple research papers I've read on hypereutectic bores, increased levels of ZDDP and Moly are the key to reduced wear.
As a separate followup, we had Ceratec tested to see exactly what it is. As we figured, it a super concentrated moly additive. Here are the test results:
As I've told many of you who have emailed me, I wouldn't use this product with any oil other than Liqui-Moly's oils, because of fear of additive clash.
The standard A40 additive package used by most manufacturers has 0 to 50ppm of moly.
For comparison, DT40 has 600ppm and DI40 has 300ppm of MoDTC (moly).
Based off multiple research papers I've read on hypereutectic bores, increased levels of ZDDP and Moly are the key to reduced wear.
I'm not really up on oil analysis. I have a 997.1 so I don't care about LSPI obviously. I was considering Ceratec. Can you explain how additive clash works with common A40 oils? For simplicity, I'd consider changing oil with 8L oil and 300ml Ceratec. Ceratec would be 3.6% total volume or about 1:28 dilution. The components of Ceratec are present in most or all A40 oils I assume. The moly component would add about 164ppm to oil used. Other components added at lesser concentrations. I'm currently using M1 so doesn't seem like anything added in Ceratec would be detrimental and only better with Ceratec. LiquiMoly has several A40 formulations. Shouldn't they reasonably know if Ceratec is adequate to use with any A40 oil? I suppose a boutique oil with especially high concentrations of some additives already may be an issue. Thanks
I had a 2008 BMW 535 and , reliability wise, it was a disaster. Under warranty they replaced a turbo and waste gate, vanos solenoid, high pressure fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure sensor. At 40K miles it was really falling apart. It also had a second rate factory paint job. Never drive a BMW unless it is covered by a warranty. Luckily, I had the standard suspension with all season tires so I did not have to deal with runflats, bent rims and destroyed tires. When the engine was running well it was great but the dealer had the car often and I was left driving 328 loaners with runflats. I guess they need to have a strong warranty while their cars are being leased.
Originally Posted by jkw911
+1. BMWs are always inexpensive after their manufacture’s warranty expires.
I had an opposite experience. My 128i (N52 engine) was completely faultless. Excellent car, never had an issue. I think its more about being smart which model you buy. There is plenty of documentation online showing which engines are trouble, just have to read it before buying!
I'm not really up on oil analysis. I have a 997.1 so I don't care about LSPI obviously. I was considering Ceratec. Can you explain how additive clash works with common A40 oils? For simplicity, I'd consider changing oil with 8L oil and 300ml Ceratec. Ceratec would be 3.6% total volume or about 1:28 dilution. The components of Ceratec are present in most or all A40 oils I assume. The moly component would add about 164ppm to oil used. Other components added at lesser concentrations. I'm currently using M1 so doesn't seem like anything added in Ceratec would be detrimental and only better with Ceratec. LiquiMoly has several A40 formulations. Shouldn't they reasonably know if Ceratec is adequate to use with any A40 oil? I suppose a boutique oil with especially high concentrations of some additives already may be an issue. Thanks
There are several companies that make oil additives (Afton, Lubrizol, Oronite, etc) as well as many additive packages with different chemistries offered by each company. The formulations are synergistic, but when you add an additive or mix oils from different brands, you can end up with additive clash where you have unexpected consequences resulting in higher wear or other issues.
Lake and I have spend the better part of fifteen years trying to explain that more is not always better. It's about a balance of the additives. Too much moly and you get sludge, too much calcium to keep the engine clean and you get accelerated wear, too much ZDDP and you end up with increased wear, etc. It's always best to use a fully formulated oil without additives when possible.
I would have to trust on blind faith that the Ceratec additive would work in a synergistic manner with their own oils and keep the additives in balance.
I had an opposite experience. My 128i (N52 engine) was completely faultless. Excellent car, never had an issue. I think its more about being smart which model you buy. There is plenty of documentation online showing which engines are trouble, just have to read it before buying!
I guess the only choice more was to skip BMW, then. The base 3.0L engine was anemic so I went with the turbo 3.0L which had widespread ( and widely reported ) problems. It wasn't even a new engine. It was the older 3.0L that had iron liners inserted to withstand the pressures of turbocharging. Yet it still was flawed. They need to lose the runflats as well. In the end, however, if you review the forums in Bimmerfest you will find that even though you will get roasted for bringing up criticisms of the brand most will advise that you have a warranty covering the car. If one must drive a BMW I would fully agree. At Bimmerfest it is common for participants to defend BMW and criticize those who have problems with their cars. I rarely see this at Rennlist.
You are right that I should have been smarter. I am smarter now that we have a flawless,absolutely trouble free 2016 Audi A6 with 45K miles. I am also smart because my 2008 C2S has had only one repair since new ( water pump).
There is good and bad luck and there are good and bad designs.
05-13-2019, 12:04 AM
