Charles Navarro

Kuwait

I have seen one other like this one - was a factory crate Cayman S/R engine we installed in a race car we built at our shop. Ran about 10 hours then it started clacking and had misfires. We put another crate engine in and the customer has been fine since other than Porsche not giving a warranty on the first engine, as it was in a race car.

Zoefhaus

Not exactly a cold climate then

Fahrer

It can still be a "cold" engine. Whether it is 80F or 20F, starting a cold engine and driving it like you stole it right out of the gate can be problem. Both of those temps are far away from a normal operating temp of 200+F.

edomund

So now we're not going to try and determine what caused the OP engine to fail?

Why won't you guys clear up the confusion created in this thread as to what did and did not cause the OP engine to fail? The OP engine is actually at your shop right now, so you guys can answer in depth questions about it.

Charles Navarro

I've posted all the measurements, observations, and my conclusions for the block and pistons, as that's all I ever saw. Sorry that they are not to your satisfaction. The block is already machined for 104s, updated squirters, and off for plating. Nothing more I can do or offer.

doclouie

Back off. They do not owe you or anyone on this forum anything. They are doing this to be helpful. Play nice or go somewhere else.

edomund

Relax doclouie. I'm not saying they owe me anything and I realize they don't have to come on here and post. However when they do post I think they have a responsibility to be accurate because people trust what they say. My posts are honestly more directed at Jake as he has been the one who posted theories and then was less than forthright with his conclusions and data.

edomund

Charles, I sincerely appreciate you posting your data. The issue I have is there have been issues raised in this thread by the builders (mostly by Jake) that I believe did not contribute to the OP failure and have people worrying about issues that are not at play here. In my opinion if you post something as a professional and people trust you then have a responsibility to follow through and clear up confusion.

The confusion could be easily put to rest by clarifying if there's any evidence of LSPI, fuel injector failure, and if this was a cold seizure by answering Baz, "When they seize it is usually creating deep grooves - like the recent picture shows on one side of the bore - which is why I would like to see a picture showing both sides to see if it was a seizure or scoring (and the same request applies to the piston).

HenryPcar

When experts in any field put up wth thesis and papers on any subject, it will be challenged by others regardless in favor or disagreeing on the contents. This is how the free world work in information interpretation. There is nothing wrong in uncovering all stones to get to the bottom of the issue, provided it is relevant and accurate. The entire issue explodes exponentially when countless likely causes are presented, making any mis-diagnoses impossible, but making accurate diagnoses also equally impossible. That is why this thread has spawned over 46 pages to-date.

okie981

The OP can close this thread any time they choose.

This patient (engine) died from a #1 cylinder piston/bore failure, and engine failure is the name of the thread. The patient also had other chronic conditions (rod bearing wear) that didn't kill it. If the bore failure had not killed the patient, how long until the rod bearing condition degraded enough to disable or kill the patient? I'm curious what caused this amount of rod bearing wear. I don't think this amount rod bearing wear is typical of 9A1 engines at the mileage on this particular engine. I certainly hope not.

Trying to diagnose the cause of the rod bearing wear may be impossible now that the engine has passed on to its next life. Maybe it needs its own thread, I don't know, but I would like to know what caused the rod bearing wear so I can hopefully avoid it in my car.

sandwedge

Did you do any modifications to the crate engine put in that Cayman race car or just out of the crate and into the car?

Charles Navarro

Whenever we installed a crate 9A1 engine, we always drained the oil, pulled the sump, and put break in oil to be run at a test day, then switch to race oil. We also fitted a Porsche Motorsports low temp thermostat, that is until we made our own for less than third the cost.

We always push for a 2.5 quart deep sump as it's good for a 30-40F degree reduction in oil temps on track, but usually that comes later when the cars come in with 270-280F oil temps.

sandwedge

Ok, so no mechanical mods except for the thermostat. That's what I was curious about. Thx.

NuttyProfessor

No need to go full-douche bag. Seems to me Baz, Jake Raby, and Charles Navarro have gone out of their way to provide as much information as possible on this engine failure. Heck, Jake even created a video on his own time to help demonstrate the diagnosis. Why do you feel they're obligated to provide you with a 100% guaranteed when it's already been discussed that the exact culprit(s) of 9A1 scoring is continuing to be studied. Did you want them to pull it out their asses? Surely not. Best thing to do is be apart of the discussion, not a distraction.

black997er

+1

I understand why Jake sometimes says screw it and just keeps quiet. It’s because even when he’s clear with a diagnosis, someone with supposedly more experience will debate him about it with anecdata. It’s laughable!