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996 option code: 680. "Nokia DSP (Digital Sound Processing) audio system". 100% worthless I would bypass and discard as others have recommended. Even an empty cubby is eminently more valuable; especially since your 2001 lacks a glovebox
Mine has the cubby for phone, etc. That car is not mine, unfortunately. Mine is a 2002 and I make good use of the glove box. Not much will stay in my pocket in this car!
Presence of DSP on a Turbo dictates it's a 2001 (no glovebox). I didn't realize you weren't OP sorry
Originally Posted by QwikKotaTX
Mine has the cubby for phone, etc. That car is not mine, unfortunately. Mine is a 2002 and I make good use of the glove box. Not much will stay in my pocket in this car!
My challenge with these very low milage cars is that, if you want to drive them much at all you ruin the value. More important than that, most of the ones I have seen in a new owners hands need significant work within a year of use. The seals, hoses, hydraulics, etc all get worse with VERY little use. A friend recently bought a 30,000 mile original 930. He just drove it to car shows etc, started leaking oil and running like hell within 1,000 miles. So far he's into an entire fuel injection rebuild, and working on several oil leaks from dried out gaskets. Saw a similar issue with a 996TT. Within 300 miles it needed an engine drop for the leaking water pipes, the clutch power assist started leaking bad, etc. My 54k mile Turbo is low enough to be worth a little something, while being high enough that it gets enough use to not need the kinds of maintenance these other cars needed.
I love seeing the clean, low milage examples for sure. I just want to drive mine and think these cars last longer and do better with a little use. JMHO.
Prices will keep rising on these, even if you put mileage on them (to a point of course). Using my '01 as an example, I bought it in 2018 with 11k miles on it. It now has 20k miles on it and the prices I have seen recently for 20k mile examples far exceed what I paid for my 11k mile example back in 2018. So you can have your cake and eat it too! Would the value of mine be even greater if I kept it closer to 11k miles? Answer - I do not care!
Last edited by Rambler_13; 04-17-2024 at 03:07 PM.
Prices will keep rising on these, even if you put mileage on them (to a point of course). Using my '01 as an example, I bought it in 2018 with 11k miles on it. It now has 20k miles on it and the prices I have seen recently for 20k mile examples far exceed what I paid for my 11k mile example back in 2018. So you can have your cake and eat it too! Would the value of mine be even greater if I kept it closer to 11k miles? Answer - I do not care!
Agreed. I'm a bit of an OG here. I bought mine in 2015 with 37k miles on it. She now have 54k on her. Runs like a top, and been bullet proof reliable. She's done long road trips, and been to the track once just for fun.
I'm convinced by mine, and by seven Lemans Championships of it's predecessors, these Mezgers will run forever
Originally Posted by Duc Hunter
Agreed. I'm a bit of an OG here. I bought mine in 2015 with 37k miles on it. She now have 54k on her. Runs like a top, and been bullet proof reliable. She's done long road trips, and been to the track once just for fun.
I'm convinced by mine, and by seven Lemans Championships of it's predecessors, these Mezgers will run forever
The mezger might, but all the other bull**** around the engine that can leave you stranded won't. Clutch accumulator, leaky slave seals, coolant lines (hard lines that need the engine dropped to replace), etc.
Ask me how I know.
Who cares about the "accumulator" it's only function is to "soften" the clutch pedal push; which is immediately better and more predictable upon the accumulator's failure. Never had any leaks with any Mezger; YMMV I guess. And I don't track my street cars so I never bothered with the coolant lines in the first place. Just my 2-cents
Originally Posted by nahk
The mezger might, but all the other bull**** around the engine that can leave you stranded won't. Clutch accumulator, leaky slave seals, coolant lines (hard lines that need the engine dropped to replace), etc.
Ask me how I know.
I'm convinced by mine, and by seven Lemans Championships of it's predecessors, these Mezgers will run forever
I have a question. Not a trick question, just a question. Do you consider the engines in prior generation of Porsches produced when Hans Mezger headed the engine design department to be “Mezger” engines or only those with water cooled heads?
I have my own belief as to why people want to use this term starting with the 996, but curious what you think.
Last edited by autobonrun; 04-18-2024 at 01:14 PM.
That answer is very simple: Hans Mezger held patents on almost every Porsche engine made since the 1950's until his retirement in 1994. Hans even held no less than two patents on the disastrous M96/97 Carrrera engines of IMSB infamy, with at least 30 known modes of failure.
So then it is inarguable that not every engine designed by Hans Mezger, is a "The Mezger".
"The Mezger" was always considered internally by Porsche Motorsports as the water-cooled, turbo-charged flat-six designed in 1976, by Hans Mezger at the pinnacle of his tenure with Porsche Motorsports, for their immortal 935 racing program. It was subsequently adapted for use in 956, 962, 959, 993/996 GT1's, and finally for the 996/997.1 Turbos & 996/997 GT2.
("The Mezger" won seven LeMan Championships between 962 & 996 GT1)
When asked in 2015, why Porsche was still racing a forty-year old engine from the 935 in its newest 991 generation Cup series, head of Porsche Motorsports Andreas Preuninger famously responded: "We have not yet found a way to break "The Mezger", so we will continue to use it."
(Andreas's response tactfully neglected the fact that the new-generation "DFI" GT motors (non-Mezger) were melting on track, and burning 991 GT's to cinders)
Technically then the NA 996/997 GT3's are not "Mezgers" per se; however their almost exact similitude with the 996/997.1 Turbos has caused them all to be "lumped" together by historians.
Interestingly, the only 993 "Mezger" was the water-cooled 993 GT1, that DNF LeMans due to aerodynamic issues. And of course there are no air-cooled "Mezgers" period. Never was one. Never will be.
(Bitter irony of that is not lost on me, as I'm a devoted 964 fanatic. But the closest 964 ever got to LeMans was it's engine block model-number, riding in a 996 Mezger)
Make sense?
Photo: 996 Turbo "Mezger", Early 2001-2003, short-block number series "964.." and proof-stamped "Made in Germany" (later road-legal Mezgers (2004-2012) were no longer Made in Germany, and all bear "996.." short-block model number series. Thus these "early" Mezgers are now retroactively considered as Mezger "Cup" engine versions, as the "964.." short-block continued to be manufactured in Germany until 2016, for customers' track-only Cup cars ordered directly from Porsche Motorsports. And hence their quixotic use by Porsche Motorsports in the 991 Cup series. Hard to conceive, but a few thousand unsuspecting owners are driving 2001-2003 996 Turbo Tip-Cabriolets with "Cup" engines!)
Originally Posted by autobonrun
I have a question. Not a trick question, just a question. Do you consider the engines in prior generation of Porsches produced when Hans Mezger headed the engine design department to be “Mezger” engines or only those with water cooled heads?
I have my own belief as to why people want to use this term starting with the 996, but curious what you think.
At a technical level, the Mezgers used in the GT1s and other race cars of the era share very few common components with the 996/997TT other than the center case. The 996/997TT engine is much closer to the 964/993 than the GT1. The GT3 engines are further evolved/refined versions of what is used in the TTs.
That answer is very simple: Hans Mezger held patents on almost every Porsche engine made since the 1950's until his retirement in 1994. Hans even held no less than two patents on the disastrous M96/97 Carrrera engines of IMSB infamy, with at least 30 known modes of failure.
So then it is inarguable that not every engine designed by Hans Mezger, is a "The Mezger".
"The Mezger" was always considered internally by Porsche Motorsports as the water-cooled, turbo-charged flat-six designed in 1976, by Hans Mezger in his prime, for Porsche Motorsports' immortal 935 racing program. It was subsequently adapted for use in 956, 962, 959, 993/996 GT1's, and finally for the 996/997.1 Turbos & 996/997 GT2.
("The Mezger" won seven LeMan Championships between 962 & 996 GT1)
When asked in 2015, why Porsche was still racing a forty-year old engine from the 935 in its newest 991 generation Cup series, head of Porsche Motorsports Andreas Pruninger famously responded: "We have not yet found a way to break "The Mezger", so we will continue to use it."
(Andreas's response tactfully neglected the fact that the new-generation "DFI" GT motors were melting on track, and burning 991 GT's to cinders)
Technically then the NA 996/997 GT3's are not "Mezgers" per se; however their almost exact similitude with the 996/997.1 Turbos has caused them all to be "lumped" together by historians.
Interestingly, the only 993 "Mezger" is the water-cooled 993 GT1, that DNF LeMans due to aerodynamic issues. And of course there are no air-cooled "Mezgers" period. Never was one. Never will be.
(Bitter irony of that is not lost on me, as I'm a devoted 964 fanatic. But the closest 964 ever got to LeMans was it's engine block model-number, riding in a 996 Mezger)
Make sense?
Thanks. It makes sense. I don’t quite understand or agree with why only some of the engines designed under Mr Mezger’s control would carry that name internally, unless Porsche wanted to give him additional and deserved credit for those particular race wins. Porsche also won many endurance races in the 70’s using engines from his department. Personally I always considered any design under his control to be associated with his name. As someone who headed up an engineering design department for several decades, I know every final design required my approval and was reflected with my PE stamp and signature. To me the only reason the general public uses the Mezger terminology for the 996 turbo models is to distinguish it from the M96 NA engine design. If there were not two design’s available for use in 911’s, there would be no need to distinguish them.
I would have loved to have sat in some of the engine design meetings for the 996. Porsche was bleeding money at the time and I’m sure Hans Mezger was under intense pressure from upper management to cut costs. Even though the M96 was under his watch, I don’t know if a sealed IMS bearing would have been his first choice but for cost savings; given all prior IMS designs under his control used oil lubricated non-sealed plain bearings. Just my opinion of course.
Last edited by autobonrun; 04-18-2024 at 02:54 PM.
Sure internals are optimized for, and vastly differ between applications. But "The Mezger" designation, at least internally by Porsche, spanned unitedly across multiple generational race and street-legal versions of the water-cooled, turbo-charged, native dry-sump flat-six engine. Not a ubiquitous combination
Originally Posted by T10Chris
At a technical level, the Mezgers used in the GT1s and other race cars of the era share very few common components with the 996/997TT other than the center case. The 996/997TT engine is much closer to the 964/993 than the GT1. The GT3 engines are further evolved/refined versions of what is used in the TTs.
04-17-2024, 02:40 PM
Would the value of mine be even greater if I kept it closer to 11k miles? Answer - I do not care!
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