bdronsick

Yes exactly, which voids the DME readout because it’s been rendered completely meaningless by the tune

Forever. Even if you flash back to OEM there will never again be an accurate DME readout

Void forever. The car is somewhat totaled to a collector who factors DME report into value (a growing phenomenon on premium auctions)

This explains why “tuned” Mezgers are consistently now doing relatively lower and lower numbers against 100% unmodified examples

(today’s $70K Speed Yellow disaster on BaT, for example)

Caveat emptor

pirahna

It is still recording the same information no matter if it has been flashed or not. If it has an over-rev occurance it went over the corresponding RPM limit. It still gives the same information which has very little value if the car has been flashed or not. Some people will want zero over-revs and others will be more tolerant.

bdronsick

Over revs measured against a non-existent limit are meaningless. Not sure how else to say that. High end buyers want a meaningful over rev report documenting every ignition against the factory limit in place. Whether some buyers tolerate the over revs or not, all Mezgers don’t bring top dollar anymore without a valid DME

sanyata

Help me out. How is an over rev recorded if there is a non-existent limit? If there is no limit, then wouldn't there be nothing to record? Doesn't the factory set the Type 1 and Type 2 range limits in the DME and record any over rev events based on those established range limits regardless of being flashed or not?
Do some programmers change the range limits settings? I don't know, is that doable? I know my flash did not change the range limit settings and I consider the over rev report in my car valid.

bdronsick

Tuned or not, we agree the DME still records ignitions over the factory limit. So the perceived problem is tuning can remove (or raise) the factory rev limiter, in which case there is nothing stopping the engine from physically exceeding OEM limitations.

This may not be a PPI issue on 997, where potential damage is easier to quantify because DME additionally tracks 6 specific rev ranges. However 996 DME only tracks 2 rev ranges generally. So 996 tuning is believed to void meaningful DME over rev data. While it's subjective whether 996 DME over rev data is actually meaningful, its inarguable the high end of the market now demands it (especially on 6MT).

Finally, even if the car is flashed back to stock ECU, it is believed (not known) that a dealer using PIWIS can determine the presence of previous tuning. Outside the dealer Durametric is useful in detecting presence of tuning as well. And of course any rev limit over 6,750, or boost over 0.8, indicates the presence of non-factory software.

Bottom line: the indeterminacy assumed to be introduced into DME reporting by non-factory software can seriously impact market value of high end 996 examples.

For example, Seller on yesterdays Speed Yellow BaT auction responded to a bidder's demand for DME report with: "The car is tuned, why bother". Accurate or not, he likely left at least $10K-$20K on the table with that one reckless statement; regardless, aggressive bidding ended at that timestamp.


Good DME primer from @SwitchCars:

Carlo_Carrera

Do you know how many Tip coupes worldwide?

bdronsick

Nothing on Tip-S sorry, I wasn't ever looking for that. Hard to parse the 20K 996TT production total because both 6MT and Tip-S gearboxes were available in both Coupe and Cab form (4 combinations).

All I know definitively is that there were only 7,000 996TT manual-coupes made worldwide, and its believed at least half of those were imported here by PCNA

7K is an extremely small number for any modern production car

(1M+ Cayennes, 2M+ Corvettes...)

QwikKotaTX

This '01 is already up to $70k with several days left. Very clean and low miles.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...urbo-coupe-52/

Duc Hunter

My challenge with these very low milage cars is that, if you want to drive them much at all you ruin the value. More important than that, most of the ones I have seen in a new owners hands need significant work within a year of use. The seals, hoses, hydraulics, etc all get worse with VERY little use. A friend recently bought a 30,000 mile original 930. He just drove it to car shows etc, started leaking oil and running like hell within 1,000 miles. So far he's into an entire fuel injection rebuild, and working on several oil leaks from dried out gaskets. Saw a similar issue with a 996TT. Within 300 miles it needed an engine drop for the leaking water pipes, the clutch power assist started leaking bad, etc. My 54k mile Turbo is low enough to be worth a little something, while being high enough that it gets enough use to not need the kinds of maintenance these other cars needed.

I love seeing the clean, low milage examples for sure. I just want to drive mine and think these cars last longer and do better with a little use. JMHO.

bdronsick

"The Mezgers" are endurance racing engines, and will run for millions of miles on the street. Totally absurd to penalize high miles. Should be the opposite but such is market demand

QwikKotaTX

That car is a bit too cherry to be able to enjoy, I agree. I worry about someone throwing a door into my car but not paranoid to drive it. I was on the fence about a high mileage car but mine has seen track use and had several water pumps replaced and fittings welded. I have driven it hard over the 9 months since purchased and no issues. Knock on wood! I just wish I had purchased during the trough of valuation.

What are these buttons for? Sound adjustment?

Carlo_Carrera

Yes, all those buttons are for different equalizer and sound effects settings. They all sound like garbage. I never use mine

QwikKotaTX

Thanks. If mine had that, they are long gone. Hah.

theprf

It's possible to get rid of that panel and lock the equalizer in bypass mode by grounding one wire on the amp.

bdronsick

996 option code: 680. "Nokia DSP (Digital Sound Processing) audio system". 100% worthless I would bypass and discard as others have recommended. Even an empty cubby is eminently more valuable; especially since your 2001 lacks a glovebox