NHTSA - looking into coolant pipe leakages
05-21-2013, 02:21 PM
#121
Nordschleife Master
At the same exposure level that a track day exposes the car to? At the same engine compartment heat levels that a track day exposes the car to?
Do you max perform the car coming out of the public street corners?
You're going to try to convince me that you can legally expose your car on public roads to the same mechanical stress at the same exposure times that it faces on a track day?
BTW, there aren't any Autobahns here in the U.S.
Do you max perform the car coming out of the public street corners?
You're going to try to convince me that you can legally expose your car on public roads to the same mechanical stress at the same exposure times that it faces on a track day?
BTW, there aren't any Autobahns here in the U.S.
I believe stop and go traffic on a hot day, cold start ups in freezing temperatures. Cooling and heating cycles in cold climates is harder on the car.
05-21-2013, 04:34 PM
#122
Rennlist Member
This has been an interesting thread with some strong opinions expressed.
It is an issue that owners need to be aware of, whether they drive on the track or on the street. It probably won't happen to many owners, but it will happen to some, and the circumstances will undoubtedly vary.
I was aware of the potential issue before experiencing it firsthand. Looking back on it now, I should have taken preventative action to better ensure the safety of other drivers (as well as myself). I had taken the approach that it was something that happened so infrequently that it probably wouldn't happen to me. That was irresponsible on my part.
Regardless of what Porsche does or does not do, it is a decision each owner should make with as much knowledge beforehand as possible.
It is an issue that owners need to be aware of, whether they drive on the track or on the street. It probably won't happen to many owners, but it will happen to some, and the circumstances will undoubtedly vary.
I was aware of the potential issue before experiencing it firsthand. Looking back on it now, I should have taken preventative action to better ensure the safety of other drivers (as well as myself). I had taken the approach that it was something that happened so infrequently that it probably wouldn't happen to me. That was irresponsible on my part.
Regardless of what Porsche does or does not do, it is a decision each owner should make with as much knowledge beforehand as possible.
05-21-2013, 06:45 PM
#123
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Of course engine compartment temperatures are higher in the Summer (like Atlanta), than they are in the Winter in cold regions (Canada/Germany). The issue is what maximum sustained engine compartment temperature Porsche engineers designed the car to operate with. I'm willing to bet that on a 90 degree day here in Atlanta, a 996 Turbo running hard laps at the track is going to generate higher engine compartment temperatures than what is generated by a 996 Turbo sitting in bumper to bumper traffic with the A/C running.
05-21-2013, 07:00 PM
#126
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
05-21-2013, 07:03 PM
#127
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
05-21-2013, 07:12 PM
#128
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
No, but I have told you repeatedly that there are several guys on a few different forums reporting their pipes popped without their cars ever being driven on a race track. Track driving may exacerbate the issue but it is not the cause.
05-21-2013, 07:15 PM
#129
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
So you're now moving away from the "public roads" position.
As for whether or not an autocross qualifies as a track, that would be something that would be argued in a court of law.
But attempting to say that someone can legally drive on public roads at the same performance level and at the same exposure level (time) that can be accomplished at the track is a huge stretch.
As for whether or not an autocross qualifies as a track, that would be something that would be argued in a court of law.
But attempting to say that someone can legally drive on public roads at the same performance level and at the same exposure level (time) that can be accomplished at the track is a huge stretch.
05-21-2013, 07:33 PM
#132
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
And these guys have been the only owners of the cars?
What some people are attempting to do is get a judgement against Porsche that either requires Porsche to weld/pin their coolant pipes, or compensate them monetarily for the cost that was incurred by already having had the pipes welded/pinned. This is a serious allegation that could cost Porsche a substantial amount of money. It would seem clear to even the most casual of observers that obtaining all the facts is critical prior to rendering judgement on Porsche either way.
I assure you that Porsche's attorneys are completely dialed into making sure they have all the relevant facts. We need to hope that the facts are clearly established by the NHTSA and that an accurate judgement is rendered.
05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
#133
Can you ladies quit bickering?
I really want to follow this thread but my phone keeps going off and it getting rather annoying....lol
You both pose valid points, end of story.
I really want to follow this thread but my phone keeps going off and it getting rather annoying....lol
You both pose valid points, end of story.
05-21-2013, 09:13 PM
#134
Nordschleife Master
So you're now moving away from the "public roads" position.
As for whether or not an autocross qualifies as a track, that would be something that would be argued in a court of law.
But attempting to say that someone can legally drive on public roads at the same performance level and at the same exposure level (time) that can be accomplished at the track is a huge stretch.
As for whether or not an autocross qualifies as a track, that would be something that would be argued in a court of law.
But attempting to say that someone can legally drive on public roads at the same performance level and at the same exposure level (time) that can be accomplished at the track is a huge stretch.
05-21-2013, 09:15 PM
#135
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't want to publicize it but I could build a circuit around public roads, that could be used during specific hours that have no monitoring or traffic flow and have flowing aspects that would mimic a track. So yes in practice, I could run these laps and do so for as long as I personally wanted. While adhering to posted speed limits by gearing and not short shifting the gears I can keep the rpm range within the same ranges as what is done on a road coarse.