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I went in my garage to continue the engine build up. (yes my engine is out for coolant pipes welding). After the installation of the water pump housing, did a leak check after pressurizing the system to 15 psi. Sprayed water and soap every where no more leak found. Started the build up process with the installation of the intake assembly and all the sense lines. Ty wrap everything (over 70 ty wraps) and after started the installation of the alternator, steering pump and reservoir. Repair of the wires for the N75 valves which was damaged due rubbing on the a/c pump mount. I also replace the fuel filter (easy with no engine in the way) new plugs and new coils and a new oil pressure sender!
So Saturday I did one of my "Morning Twisties" drives... A buddy whom I haven't driven with for a while was there in his modified/sorted 996 Turbo. We swapped cars for a section. Plenty of twisties, some higher speed sweepers, some low speed switchbacks. It was pretty interesting what our individual perceptions were.
As some of you might know, I have two 996 Turbos. "Arctic" I've had for longer, and I love the way it drives in high speed canyon runs. Not perfect for the track (too soft), far from perfect for commuting (too stiff, GT2 clutch requires lots of pedal pressure), but just magic (for me) in the twisties. A bunch of mods, needless to say. (H&R sport springs, B8 shocks, Apex 18" 10"/12" 245/315 tires, Eibach sways, Sparco carbon buckets, track alignment, Cobb tune, titanium x pipe, short shift, etc)
"Polar" is my second Turbo. Cosmetically nearly perfect. Gorgeous. It drove great in most peoples opinions, but just didn't have that precise turn-in and corner set that my Arctic car had, so I've been doing some tweaks to get it set up the way I like. Rebuilt the KW-V3's, corner balance, adjust GMG sway bars, switch from 19" 997 Turbo size tires/wheels to Apex 18" 10"/12" 245/315 tires. Had a performance shop tweak my alignment, installed euro GT2 carbon buckets. And now, again FOR ME, it's mission accomplished, handles the way I love.
My buddies car is also pretty modified. GT2 styling kit, 19" 225/305 tires, Moton suspension, unknown alignment and suspension tuning.
So here is the funny part... When we switched, I *immediately* didn't love his setup. To me, it felt floaty and vague. Wouldn't set in a corner. Didn't give me confidence to put the power down at a corner apex. Far less road feel. I adjusted a bit to the car after a short while, but never could get the thing to corner nicely. I was sure when he got out of my car, he would be sad and disappointed that his car didn't handle like mine.
Nope! Instead he felt my car was "twitchy" and scared him (which by the way couldn't be farther than my perception of it when driving).
After getting back into my car, I kept thinking "how could one perceive this as twitchy???". Then I realized my car definitely favors smooth input and some finesse. Start sawing the wheel back and forth quickly for no reason and yup, it doesn't like that! I think I am just so acclimated to smooth, gentle, precise inputs to get my car through the twisties and he is used to the opposite!
I guess my point is threefold:
I'm constantly amazed and impressed at how a 996 Turbo can be tweaked into whatever you are looking for with fairly minimal modifications.. Track rat, country club cruiser, cross country/commuter.
Different strokes and all... I was flabbergasted that he preferred his floaty, vague steering feel and lack of turn in over my setup, but he did. First thing i would do if it was my car would be crank up the rebound 2 clicks front and rear and test again, but really don't know how much that might help. I'm glad I know how I like my cars to feel and am usually able to set them up that way
I am again reminded just how different these cars can feel depending on setup. I've driven perhaps two dozen different 996 Turbos (on fun roads, not just around a city block) and the variation is pretty surprising!
PS: Sorry for the long post! Bonus points if you actually read all of that...
I noticed my car handled/felt alot different with the UMW stage 1 map. Same when I went back to stock.
Your post is spot on and its why I like my car alot..it's more or less between a "GT" type of touring car and a track car. Maybe alittle bit more toward the GT side of things but firmed up enough to make it fun in the twistys and tolerable for long drives. It probably is a bit too soft for a track car at this point but its mega fun on twisty roads!
Im most likely going with a basic k16/24 hybrid along with supporting mods but Im liking the stock powerband alot more now that i fixed the boost leaks and replaced the fuel pump. The car is very smooth/responsive!
@pfbz Are any of your TTs tuned?
Im most likely going with a basic k16/24 hybrid along with supporting mods but Im liking the stock powerband alot more now that i fixed the boost leaks and replaced the fuel pump. The car is very smooth/responsive!
I didn't touch on Turbos, but yes, I have some thoughts there as well. Both my 996 Turbos are running stock K16 Turbos, stock wastegates (but tightened adjuster rods), and custom tunes. One Cobb/Sam based, the other an older UWM/Kevin tune. I've driven a few different K24 996 Turbos recently.... They definitely have more top-end power and keep pulling longer, but they sacrifice that mid-range torque I absolutely love when driving twisties. Perhaps it's an altitude effect as well, but for my "Morning Twisties" use case, the K16's are the winner IMHO. Now maybe an upgraded BB 16/24 hybrid would give me best of both worlds, but I usually don't end a drive thinking "if only I had a bit more power.." Even these 23+ year old Turbos can spank pretty much anything else that comes along for a twisty drive, except the McLarens which are just in another league.
I didn't touch on Turbos, but yes, I have some thoughts there as well. Both my 996 Turbos are running stock K16 Turbos, stock wastegates (but tightened adjuster rods), and custom tunes. One Cobb/Sam based, the other an older UWM/Kevin tune. I've driven a few different K24 996 Turbos recently.... They definitely have more top-end power and keep pulling longer, but they sacrifice that mid-range torque I absolutely love when driving twisties. Perhaps it's an altitude effect as well, but for my "Morning Twisties" use case, the K16's are the winner IMHO. Now maybe an upgraded BB 16/24 hybrid would give me best of both worlds, but I usually don't end a drive thinking "if only I had a bit more power.." Even these 23+ year old Turbos can spank pretty much anything else that comes along for a twisty drive, except the McLarens which are just in another league.
I wish there was a BB upgrade for the K16s! Apparently there is a xona rotor UHF knock off turbine for our k16 turbos..
Id like to try a k24 car but ive more or less concluded they are worth it if you are tracking the car seriously or just want to make big reliable HP. The downside of spicy k16s and k16 hybrids are bending rods if the tune isnt done correctly.
I wonder how many tuned stock k16 cars have bent rods...
I didn't touch on Turbos, but yes, I have some thoughts there as well. Both my 996 Turbos are running stock K16 Turbos, stock wastegates (but tightened adjuster rods), and custom tunes. One Cobb/Sam based, the other an older UWM/Kevin tune. I've driven a few different K24 996 Turbos recently.... They definitely have more top-end power and keep pulling longer, but they sacrifice that mid-range torque I absolutely love when driving twisties. Perhaps it's an altitude effect as well, but for my "Morning Twisties" use case, the K16's are the winner IMHO. Now maybe an upgraded BB 16/24 hybrid would give me best of both worlds, but I usually don't end a drive thinking "if only I had a bit more power.." Even these 23+ year old Turbos can spank pretty much anything else that comes along for a twisty drive, except the McLarens which are just in another league.
So Saturday I did one of my "Morning Twisties" drives... A buddy whom I haven't driven with for a while was there in his modified/sorted 996 Turbo. We swapped cars for a section. Plenty of twisties, some higher speed sweepers, some low speed switchbacks. It was pretty interesting what our individual perceptions were.
As some of you might know, I have two 996 Turbos. "Arctic" I've had for longer, and I love the way it drives in high speed canyon runs. Not perfect for the track (too soft), far from perfect for commuting (too stiff, GT2 clutch requires lots of pedal pressure), but just magic (for me) in the twisties. A bunch of mods, needless to say. (H&R sport springs, B8 shocks, Apex 18" 10"/12" 245/315 tires, Eibach sways, Sparco carbon buckets, track alignment, Cobb tune, titanium x pipe, short shift, etc)
"Polar" is my second Turbo. Cosmetically nearly perfect. Gorgeous. It drove great in most peoples opinions, but just didn't have that precise turn-in and corner set that my Arctic car had, so I've been doing some tweaks to get it set up the way I like. Rebuilt the KW-V3's, corner balance, adjust GMG sway bars, switch from 19" 997 Turbo size tires/wheels to Apex 18" 10"/12" 245/315 tires. Had a performance shop tweak my alignment, installed euro GT2 carbon buckets. And now, again FOR ME, it's mission accomplished, handles the way I love.
My buddies car is also pretty modified. GT2 styling kit, 19" 225/305 tires, Moton suspension, unknown alignment and suspension tuning.
So here is the funny part... When we switched, I *immediately* didn't love his setup. To me, it felt floaty and vague. Wouldn't set in a corner. Didn't give me confidence to put the power down at a corner apex. Far less road feel. I adjusted a bit to the car after a short while, but never could get the thing to corner nicely. I was sure when he got out of my car, he would be sad and disappointed that his car didn't handle like mine.
Nope! Instead he felt my car was "twitchy" and scared him (which by the way couldn't be farther than my perception of it when driving).
After getting back into my car, I kept thinking "how could one perceive this as twitchy???". Then I realized my car definitely favors smooth input and some finesse. Start sawing the wheel back and forth quickly for no reason and yup, it doesn't like that! I think I am just so acclimated to smooth, gentle, precise inputs to get my car through the twisties and he is used to the opposite!
I guess my point is threefold:
I'm constantly amazed and impressed at how a 996 Turbo can be tweaked into whatever you are looking for with fairly minimal modifications.. Track rat, country club cruiser, cross country/commuter.
Different strokes and all... I was flabbergasted that he preferred his floaty, vague steering feel and lack of turn in over my setup, but he did. First thing i would do if it was my car would be crank up the rebound 2 clicks front and rear and test again, but really don't know how much that might help. I'm glad I know how I like my cars to feel and am usually able to set them up that way
I am again reminded just how different these cars can feel depending on setup. I've driven perhaps two dozen different 996 Turbos (on fun roads, not just around a city block) and the variation is pretty surprising!
PS: Sorry for the long post! Bonus points if you actually read all of that...
I wish there was a BB upgrade for the K16s! Apparently there is a xona rotor UHF knock off turbine for our k16 turbos..
Id like to try a k24 car but ive more or less concluded they are worth it if you are tracking the car seriously or just want to make big reliable HP. The downside of spicy k16s and k16 hybrids are bending rods if the tune isnt done correctly.
I wonder how many tuned stock k16 cars have bent rods...
I have a K24/20g car in Emmaus Pa when you want to go for a ride! I personally don't mind a little lag. I'm used to it having owned a previous big turbo B5 S4. Plus it keeps the rods happy with the later torque onset. I also hate the feeling boost tapering off in upper RPMs, I much rather have my "fun" cars scream till redline. I own a B9 S4 with just a tune, intercooler, and exhaust. Boost comes on nice and hard around 2k, but it's out of breath at 5500. Around town its great, and is faster than my 996 in the real world for this reason. So it's personal preference and how you plan to drive it really.
08-10-2024, 09:46 PM
