tkerrmd

Just wondering the pros and cons of each. If one were to pick a turbo upgrade would you go with something originally produced like a Garrett or a "hybrid".
wondering the quality of each and also differences between ball bearing and cartridge type.
External waste gate vs internal for best performance.
Yes mulling over a turbo change!!
Advice and opinions accepted. Want the maximum safest turbo upgrade with stock internals.
I have the GT2 IC's, upgraded hoses and diverters. I will change intake and upgrade the fuel pump.
Also willing to let my new K-24 turbos off my GT2 engine go. What are they worth and who wants them!

John D II

Tom,

Here's some food for thought -

I'm not sure of the merits of ball bearing vs. cartridge turbos or external vs. internal wastegates, but you should seriously consider sending your K24's to Protomotive and having them upgraded to K24/18G's for 1k. Then round it out with a 5 bar FPR, Greddy boost controller and a Protomotive tune. Run lower boost at the track and higher boost on the street (if you feel compelled to). I find my car has tons of power at 1.16-1.19 bar and that is where I usually keep it.

If your feeling adventurous now or down the road, add the fuel pump, injectors, intake and MAF with a custom Proto tune and the car will really rock with quick spool and exceptional throttle response (Todd can even fine tune the program with you via email and the durametric datalogging software, so you do not need to send your car in).

Since you already have the K24's, this is a very inexpensive way to get big power. Your car will feel much stronger than with the smaller hybrids.

Just to give you an idea...DMaffo ran 10.8 @ 133 with this set-up...it's powerful and fast for very little outlay from your position.

tkerrmd

Like that idea John, very helpful. I didnt know about that kind of option. I send my new K-24's in and they come back more powerful?
What kind of hp upgrade? Thanks I will call him!

tom

John D II

Yes, that's how it works - I think it's $1,200.00 for the turbo upgrade, about $300 for the 5 bar, about $300 for the Greddy and just under $3,000 for the software (if you ever make any changes...it only costs about $300 for a software revision with the new components, such as if you decide to add the fuel system at a later date). This is his 600HP level. With a few other ad-ons (ported headers, V-Flow and 75mm throttle body w/ RSS plenum and associated tune) you can get to about 650HP.

Then the fuel injectors, additional fuel pump, proto intake and Proto MAF bring it up to 700HP with awesome throttle response and very quick spool. I think you could run the 700 package at a low boost setting and be pretty safe as there is plenty of fuel, but the price probably triples to get to the 700 level...

Wachuko

I don't get it, why not just call Kevin??

tkerrmd

John, no internal work??
thanks
tom

John D II

Tom, you should call or email Todd K.

From my understanding - No. According to Todd K it is not necessary at either the 600 HP or the 700 HP level. The 700 HP level is the max he recommends for stock internals. From what I have been told, the 700 package has been run at 1.7 bar with race fuel (1/4 mile only) without engine damage, however, it is not suggested or recommended. Todd told me himself that if I stuck to 1.2 bar on 93 and 1.3 bar on 104 (with my 700), I would not have any problems. He considers this within his known safe zone. I put 12,000 miles on my 700 this season and the car is really fast - at times it feels outright violent...especially in the cooler weather lately. I can see where the rods must be transferring a lot of force at the 700 level, as it is a world of difference from stock. I think the 600 would be a very solid, fast performer with a margin of safety built in. It is basically a K24 car on steroids - it's pushed a bit, but nothing wild, just real solid and strong.

Kevin

DMaffo ran the run with a stock MAF and Stock injector at what AFR's?? A engine will make power when running lean.. DGreen was running 12.9 and 13.1 AFR's with his K24/18G. Again the engine will make power, but you guys will be looking for new Crate engines..

John D II

Kevin,

DMaffo runs a stock MAF, stock injectors, 5 bar FPR, no cats and an AFR gauge. He also took out the passenger seat - From what he says, he was checking his AFR gauge throughout every run to make sure his AFR's were OK. He made consistent runs in the 10's, well into the 130's, which is very impressive with a simple bolt on package (turbos, exhaust, 5 bar FPR and Protomotive programming). However, he was speed shifting at full throttle, which few of us will ever do...

tkerrmd

John, thanks again!! I will ask Todd, but if I go with the K24/18 turbos, Vivid airbox, hoses, diverters, straight pipes, GT2 fuel pump and 5 bar FPR, GT intercoolers. Stock headers, does that sound like a good starting point?
I will only run 93 octane and stick to the 1.2 bar for highest boost.
Do you or anyone want to give me a prediction on the crank/wheel hp?
Does the above sound safe and reliable in a track setting to all??

Kevin

Tom with your Revo programming now you are at 1.2bar.. Swapping turbochargers and adding a electronic boost controller set at 1.2bar is just a tit for tat tradeoff.. Infact you will reach you 1.2bar later vs sooner. Setting the boost controller higher will net you more power, but you will quickly run out of fuel.

DMaffo has a stripped car with a gutted interior.

John D II

Tom,

Personally, I think you would be very pleased with the above. However, if I were doing it, I would port the stock headers while you are at it and add an intake plenum such as the FVD or EVO unit.

As for road track settings...Todd will know what is safe - he has many customers that track their cars.

What you are describing is the 600 HP package. Air intakes, plenums, ported headers and a larger throttle body all enhance the 600 number. When I was going to do this level - I was told about 650 HP with all the goodies I just mentioned above, race gas and 1.35 bar boost...

I usually run just under 1.2 bar and have plenty of power. My typical boost setting on 93 octane is 1.16 - 1.19 and I am very happy with the power provided at under 1.2 bar. The Protomotive K24/18 turbos you don't seem to require as much boost to produce some serious power.

And I would not get too hung up on the power figures, dynos figures and hypothetical scenarios. Know that these Proto K24/18G turbos make a very fast car. Period.

In support of this, I will offer the following: Last year nobody could beat Bills base Proto 600 in NY (just turbos, Greddy, ECU tune and exhaust) - he went up against several different stage 4 cars from various tuners on friendly highway pulls and the last I heard nobody ever beat him, including my previous K16/24 car that ran 11.5 @ 127mph in the 1/4 mile. Another story to give you an idea of the potential of a base P600 - Last winter I did the Proto 700 install in New England and we used a generic program to get it down to Protosport in NJ for fine tuning because I used the V-Flow with proto MAF and not the Proto pipes, which have an established program ready to go. I felt the car was very fast and was quite happy with the power. When I test drove the car with John at protosport, he said "something is wrong, I have K24/18G cars without the fuel that pull stronger than this". I thought to myself "thats odd - I thought this was pretty good, certainly faster than a base proto car". John was right and when he was done with the car it really ran well, but what I am trying to say is the base Proto car is a force to be reckoned with...maybe not the fastest car on the planet, but I don't think you will ever be embarrased and it has proven to be faster than your typical stage 4 car.

Y65MPH

John is 100% correct regarding the K24/18G setup. Awesome power and if you keep the boost at 1.2 or so you can keep the engine together. A buddy of mine was running his PE 700 yesterday in a V-Max and blew a head gasket running at 1.4 bar and race gas. So for track applications I would not push it to that boost level.

I also use Protosport here in NJ and they do amazing work. The funny thing is that my 965 has a full Protosport enigne build, but my 996TT (X50) runs just an Upsolute, intake and exhaust and keeps up with Stage 4 cars. So there is the $700 alternative.

Craig

Y65MPH

You will make between 560 and 575 WHP. The 700 package will get you 610 to 625 WHP. I have seen both packages on the dyno. So take it for what it is worth.

jcb-memphis

On turbo questions...I go to Kevin.

Call him. Tell him what you want, why, how and such, and he will probably be able to build you turbos to your needs.

JB