Kevin,

You seem to have taken this to the personal level and personal attacks, I would not want to impact your business and family, so I will stop it here regardless of what I believe.

I will not refrain from posting on your threads when I disagree however, you can be sure of that, not because you are a sponsor or because we like you and you are a nice guy. If you post claims be ready to back them up when challenged, you are the supplier and need to prove others wrong, not viceversa.

Finally I have not discredited your work, re-read the posts with an objective mind, I challenged the potential outcome in real street/track terms. YOur objective was to reduce lag, and I am quite sure they will deliver there, it does not make the rest correct.

 

Gentlemen,

Let me remind you how this works....

To have an "opinion" is simply wonderful. To be able to express your opinion - is fine as well. That, indeed is what Rennlist is all about. However - when your "opinion" reads as a slight, based on your experience with a competitive product - it's simply that - opinion based on nothing..??

For that - let me throw out a personal analogy, which does fit - in this case... I'm an avid photographer. and Nikon announced their D300. The D300 hasn't "hit the streets" yet - so should/would I vocalize my opinion on the outcome of that Nikon investment without someone giving it a "hands on"? Probably not. I may have a lot of questions (which I do...) - but to opine in public that it "won't deliver" until it's taken for a test drive - well, is simply "silly" and rhetorical.. I'm guessing Nikon has millions of dollars into R&D on their next product, and what I can't see, first hand - is only "speculation" on my part...

I'm guessing as well - Kevin has more than a fair amount invested in his R&D. And frankly - I could give a "rats ***" if he's a Sponsor or not, as when "opinion turns to fact" before the product is "customer tested" as "conjecture" based on competitors claims , then we have a problem. To be honest - I could give you a long list of vendors - who are NOT SPONSORS, who I have said the same for and about. I will - and do defend - any vendor who can make an investment and improve on existing technology. Rennlist Sponsor or not. If I deleted all the thread mentioning good products from non-rennlist sponsors - I'm guessing I'd have a busy time of it.

It really is "that simple"...

So - feel free to ask questions. Poke and probe. Have an "opinion" - but that "opinion" should be well founded, and not "seat of the pants"...

Have a nice day - and if anyone gets a Nikon D300 before I do - can you PM me? I have some questions about some of their technologies in the D300 which I don't have in my D200 or D70. And before I make my decision, and post it publicly - I'd certainly like to understand the facts as they apply to the "real world"...

Maybe that's part of the analogy as well...

John D.

 

erased button

 

Kevin, I for one am very interested in your products, just ask my brother (Ron). Let's keep the information in an open forum. I think the majority of the members can read between the lines. Subjective opinions based soley on speculation will not sway most, if any educated consumers. Please, keep up the great work and keep us less educated turbo dummies informed.

 

Kevin (KPG),

Wow, I just got back from my daughters cheering and see there has been some spirited debate today...

What I am observing is that UMW has been praising the K16 based turbo for a long time and in general, discouraging the K24 as too laggy. Protomotive has always discouraged the K16 and pushed the K24 claiming the small additional lag is not that big of a deal and worth the tradeoff for the additional power a k24 can produce at the top end . I seem to recall debates between Kevin and someone named "K24 madness" or something similar - each proclaiming the merits and advantages of their favorite turbo. Now UMW is introducing a K24 hybrid -a move toward what Protomotive has done for a long time. Also, UMW and EVO are now introducing an upgraded MAF on their higher HP packages, again something that Protomotive has been doing for years. That's all. I see that some of the tuners are seeing the merit of "two main ingedients of any package" that Todd Knighton discovered a long time ago. I am sure their tuning philosophies are different.

 

This thread was a spin off to the "fact" that with the development of my new Stage 4 package I have manufacture a new turbocharger for this kit.. Yes, this mean, engineering it, cad drawing, mold, tooling, foundry pours and then CNC machining.. This new turbocharger is NOT a K24 I previous wrote that it is a K26 frame size..

However, as a spin off in manufacturing I have made a new replacement turbine wheel called the K24 HyFlow. The sole design is to replace the factory K24 turbine wheel with mine.. A improved design and product. One other benifit that I haven't mentioned, is that I can take a stock K16 and completely rebuild it as a K24.. One could call this a K24 HyFlow.. I have manufactured the missing components that are different between the two turbochargers..

And again, I must clarify, in none of my Staged performance kits do I use the RAW K24 turbocharger ( I am not following in someones recipe).. The Stage 4 kit is closer to K26 and K27 components than it is K24's.. ie larger turbine housing, larger turbine wheel, larger compressor wheel and compressor housing...

 

With the new turbos, what are the turbo/stage possibilities? Or will you recommend specific turbos with each specific stage?

 

The new turbocharger will be used in my new Stage 4 package.

If someone has a GT2 or X50, they could have the K24 HyFlow turbine wheel installed. Another option would be if someone wanted to move from stock K16 to straight K24's and run programming similar to flashed X50 programming.

 

So I could have the K16s I have now, made to a K16/24hyflow?Sorry I'm confused. How similar would this be to your stage 2ZC? What would the HP Torque be? Could you please PM me the price? Please include the cost of the additional software files, and any recommendations!!!

 

Let's step back a second..

If you were to take your stock K16 turbocharger apart and lay them on a bench and do the same with the K24 that is used in a GT2 or X50 car. You would find that the compressor wheels are both K24's.. One with a part number of K24/2006 and the other with K24/2007. The compressor housings are the same, however the factory bores out the diameter to fit the larger K24/2007 compressor wheel.

You will also find that the Turbine housing are different. The one in the stock K16 has a A/R volume ratio of 8 cm sq and the K24 has the volume increased to 10 cm sq.. The frame size designation is given from the size of turbine wheel. The turbine wheel that is used in the K16 is smaller than the K24.. A smaller turbine wheel will spool up quicker. All of my K16 hybrid turbocharger have the A/R changed matching the K24 factory 10 cm sq housing.

My Stage 2 Z/C kit has a larger compressor wheel.. It is larger than the K24/2006 and K24/2007. The confusion that you might have is in your frame sizing a GT2 or X50 would be called a K24/24 My New Stage 4 would be called a K26/27.. First number is the turbine wheel/2nd is the compressor wheel.

 

Thanks, Kevin! Now I almost understand Kwx/yz nomenclature. Not completely, but better than I did a few minutes ago.

Jeff

 

This is all very confusing. What is the benefit of the new K24 Hyflow?

What turbo will it fit in, stock 996TT or X50/GT-2?

What are the HP/Torque numbers?

Price?

I am trying to make since of this, but it seems I have to go back and read the entire thread everytime I get to the end!

 

The turbocharger in your 996TT is a K16.. The turbocharger in a X50 or GT2 is a K24..

Physically both turbochargers share the same bolt patterns and will bolt to the same headers..

It is the programming that makes or breaks the results. If you retain the stock K24 compressor wheel > K24/2007 the power output will be less than my Stage 2 turbocharger..

The benifit of this wheel is the ability for it to spool up quicker.. As these cars age, the frequency of repairing the K24 has increased, the same goes for the K16. Rebuilding them with the new wheel is now possible.

The bottom line is, some folks just want K24's.. They want to move out of the K16 frame/platform. The K24 X50 turbocharger will develop more power over the stock K16.. The boost limit of a stock K16 is around 1 bar.. The maximum output of a K24/2007 is 1.2bars When you start to make hybrids out of either turbocharger the limit becomes fueling and rods.

Here is a link to a comparison of my Stage 2 hybrids vs a EVOM's Stage 4 (which utilizes stock K24)

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo-forum/314712-dyno-comparison-umw-stg2-zc-vs-stg4.html

The installation of the K24 HyFlow wheel will allow the K24 to spool up quicker which will yield more torque sooner in the RPM curve.

 

So a stock 996 Turbo going to your Stage 2 would use the ZC turbos, or go to straight K24's and use the Stage 2 programing that you have for the X50? Is there a K24 ZC turbo?

 

Dock, Zero Clearance is a process that can be applied to the compressor stage of the turbocharger.

In order to use the Stage 2 programming, I would have to mount the Stage 2 compressor wheel to the K24 turbocharger. Z/C would be optional. I have Z/C'd K24 turbochargers... Alot of track junkies are running with the Z/C setup..