Ultimate Motorwerks new K24 HyFlow turbocharger
09-30-2007, 11:22 PM
#61
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Is that the best you can do?
As with my previous post re: Marksi's 9 sec run, you make what you think is a sarcastic comment and then you run away .
Have the B*LLS to back up your snide comment which is based on lack of comprehension of my post or don't bother:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joetwint
Funny!You need a car in the "REAL WORLD" to understand that a quicker spooling turbo is a good thing and the result is more power under the curve which in real life makes your car faster and more enjoyable to drive.
Quote:
Origianlly Posted by Rafiki
Funny! Would you care to elaborate on where this quicker spooling turbo sits in the UMW heirachy and provide some cost vs benefit comaprisons.
09-30-2007, 11:23 PM
#62
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my .02cents.
Obviously the three big dogs for tuners in the US are EVOMS, Promotive, and UMW (listed alphabetically
). I must say that whenever a tuner brings out a new product or package one MUST question the statements/assertions. This is the only way we can make informed decisions. Lets face it, were not dealing with honda's here and therefore modding is expensive. Tuners should not get upset or apprehensive when questioned about their products.
Jag
Obviously the three big dogs for tuners in the US are EVOMS, Promotive, and UMW (listed alphabetically
). I must say that whenever a tuner brings out a new product or package one MUST question the statements/assertions. This is the only way we can make informed decisions. Lets face it, were not dealing with honda's here and therefore modding is expensive. Tuners should not get upset or apprehensive when questioned about their products.Jag
09-30-2007, 11:26 PM
#63
builds almost everything in house (except turbos) and is the only tuner that
does not "FARM OUT" programming. Todd Knighton is a genius when it comes to programming and also has a unique philosophy about it.
UMW has a very convenient arrangement with a gentleman
from Germany to do this (programming) for him. (This, ironically is part of
Evolution Motorsports (EVOMS) current problem with their high horsepower
systems...they are so heavily dependent upon the services (or lack of)
Garret Liam of GIAC.
Marty
does not "FARM OUT" programming. Todd Knighton is a genius when it comes to programming and also has a unique philosophy about it.
UMW has a very convenient arrangement with a gentleman
from Germany to do this (programming) for him. (This, ironically is part of
Evolution Motorsports (EVOMS) current problem with their high horsepower
systems...they are so heavily dependent upon the services (or lack of)
Garret Liam of GIAC.
Marty
Let me just say this. If you could farm out your ECU programming to one of the best BOSCH programmers in the world, perhaps an F1 guru, or do it with a local guy, with whom would you work..... and perhaps UMW is using such an F1 person. (BTW, do a search on "Woosh" and "modified stock muffler" on 6speedonline.com and you can see some UMW dyno curves with stock other stuff.....more torque than some vendors with an exhaust (AWE with Giac/AWE combo...)....my observation ok...the UMW software fried a clutch fast on my car....perhaps my fault...but I know how to drive a clutch....x 20+ years.....and I think that it was just the huge torque in the ECU software...just my hunch). As much as Todd may be a genius, the F1 paychecks for ECU programmers are a bit more than he probably makes.....just keep that in mind assuming he is swayed by market forces of course.
It is not bad to farm out work if you can find the right person or place.
Said another way:
By using tuners, we local owners are "farming out" our car tuning work if you will. One might as well criticize a tuner/user for not refining his/her own fuel.....but for farming it out to the local gas station. The idea of farming out work to others as bad is simply something that does not hold water in my mind. To me, it means that you think others add value to a system that you design. The "tuner" is simply the person putting it all together, testing, and re-testing. Clearly some add unique things and for that should be rewarded. But getting talent via outsourcing should not autmatically be criticized. Especially with the new locks on the 997tt code.....998tt code, etc. Sometimes having the services of a guru is wise. :-)
Even inside of Porsche, I am quite sure more than one guy designed and built my car. They might even get suppliers to supply them with parts that those suppliers do make better than they could themselves (BOSCH, ZF, Sachs, etc.).
With respect...this is not a flame....just noting that your logic is flawed.
JB
09-30-2007, 11:48 PM
#64
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Is that the best you can do?
As with my previous post re: Marksi's 9 sec run, you make what you think is a sarcastic comment and then you run away .
Have the B*LLS to back up your snide comment which is based on lack of comprehension of my post or don't bother:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joetwint
Funny!You need a car in the "REAL WORLD" to understand that a quicker spooling turbo is a good thing and the result is more power under the curve which in real life makes your car faster and more enjoyable to drive.
Quote:
Origianlly Posted by Rafiki
Funny! Would you care to elaborate on where this quicker spooling turbo sits in the UMW heirachy and provide some cost vs benefit comaprisons.
As with my previous post re: Marksi's 9 sec run, you make what you think is a sarcastic comment and then you run away .
Have the B*LLS to back up your snide comment which is based on lack of comprehension of my post or don't bother:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joetwint
Funny!You need a car in the "REAL WORLD" to understand that a quicker spooling turbo is a good thing and the result is more power under the curve which in real life makes your car faster and more enjoyable to drive.
Quote:
Origianlly Posted by Rafiki
Funny! Would you care to elaborate on where this quicker spooling turbo sits in the UMW heirachy and provide some cost vs benefit comaprisons.
09-30-2007, 11:50 PM
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I applaud everyone's passion for their tuner of choice, but for some of us who are interested in Kevin's new product I would appreciate a little more respect for the forum members as well as the tuner himself.
As a customer of both Kevin and Protmotive, I use both tuners for their strengths. I have had my Protomotive dealer install one of Kevin's turbos because I felt (as the consumer) it was the best product for the application.
So folks, don't be so closed minded when it comes to tuning. The actual tuners do not bad mouth or discredit each others work so neither should we.
Craig
As a customer of both Kevin and Protmotive, I use both tuners for their strengths. I have had my Protomotive dealer install one of Kevin's turbos because I felt (as the consumer) it was the best product for the application.
So folks, don't be so closed minded when it comes to tuning. The actual tuners do not bad mouth or discredit each others work so neither should we.
Craig
09-30-2007, 11:51 PM
#66
I remember when I had a 993 C4. Those in the 996 turbo forum....well, that was for those fortunate few. Now I am one and we are fighting about which gadgets MAKE 996 turbos better.
We are all super lucky. Let's let the temp cool off a bit.
To anyone foturnate to have one of these cars and the means to "tune" it, call around to the various tuners and ask about things like upgradeability/durability/testing and talk to customers of each vendor and/or post here and some other places. Listen. Realize that more people post to solve a problem than to say how great something is, etc. Mostly, say what you plan to do with the car now and long term and see what the tuners say. And, the tuner needs to be someone who can work with you..... Kevin put up with me. When I find someone who can do that.... just kidding.
FWIW, everyone that starts tuning keeps tuning...the velocity of the modifications varies by bank account and driveability needs, but it is positive in most cases.
I just think everyone with one of these amazing cars is darn lucky to have it and the fact such cars are made. We need to stick together to help each other with problems to avoid big bills....and not argue about whose X is bigger.
Porsche tuners that have been mentioned are mostly super people (I don't know of anyone otherwise, but I am sure they are out there). I hate "preachy" posts...sorry to have done one myself.
JB
We are all super lucky. Let's let the temp cool off a bit.
To anyone foturnate to have one of these cars and the means to "tune" it, call around to the various tuners and ask about things like upgradeability/durability/testing and talk to customers of each vendor and/or post here and some other places. Listen. Realize that more people post to solve a problem than to say how great something is, etc. Mostly, say what you plan to do with the car now and long term and see what the tuners say. And, the tuner needs to be someone who can work with you..... Kevin put up with me. When I find someone who can do that.... just kidding.
FWIW, everyone that starts tuning keeps tuning...the velocity of the modifications varies by bank account and driveability needs, but it is positive in most cases.
I just think everyone with one of these amazing cars is darn lucky to have it and the fact such cars are made. We need to stick together to help each other with problems to avoid big bills....and not argue about whose X is bigger.
Porsche tuners that have been mentioned are mostly super people (I don't know of anyone otherwise, but I am sure they are out there). I hate "preachy" posts...sorry to have done one myself.JB
10-01-2007, 12:15 AM
#67
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[/QUOTE]As for running away .........Oh yeah I am scared of someone who doesn't understand the fundamental basics of a turbocharged motor.Your right Rafiki I have no *****.........so stop trying to swing from them.
[/QUOTE]I may not understand the turbo motor as well as some...but I'm not a mechanic or an engineer.I do however, have agood grasp on logic and spotting BS.Both have come in handy when reading your posts.
As far as swinging off your *****, the only way that would be possible is if they were aftermarket ones.
10-01-2007, 12:55 AM
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OK Rafiki i'll play,the relevency of this product is :
If you have a car equipped with a k24 you can have Kevin swap out the wheel which according to Kevin results in 3-500 rpm sooner onset of boost.Quicker boost onset means you reach peak torque earlier in the rpm range .Peak torque earlier is a good thing which results in more power across a broader rpm range(power under the curve).So when you are driving on the highway in 6th gear at 2500rpm and you want to pass you have to wait less time for the turbos to spool (make boost) and the power comes on sooner without having to downshift .Another benefit would be launching the car at a lower rpm(drag racing)resulting in less driveline component abuse.An easy upgrade to improve A K24 turbo without having to change turbos on a GT2 , X50 or someone who has already stepped up to a k24 on a 996tt.
If you have a car equipped with a k24 you can have Kevin swap out the wheel which according to Kevin results in 3-500 rpm sooner onset of boost.Quicker boost onset means you reach peak torque earlier in the rpm range .Peak torque earlier is a good thing which results in more power across a broader rpm range(power under the curve).So when you are driving on the highway in 6th gear at 2500rpm and you want to pass you have to wait less time for the turbos to spool (make boost) and the power comes on sooner without having to downshift .Another benefit would be launching the car at a lower rpm(drag racing)resulting in less driveline component abuse.An easy upgrade to improve A K24 turbo without having to change turbos on a GT2 , X50 or someone who has already stepped up to a k24 on a 996tt.
10-01-2007, 12:57 AM
#69
Well, on a better note, the turbine pictures look really cool. Nice job Kevin. Despite the silly level the conversation has taken (these guys are typing about swinging from each other's gonads...unbelievable), you did good with the turbos.
Gentlemen, there are many ways to solve the problem of power.... None will ever be best for all. Let's leave it there.
Kevin, on my stock K16's, do you do core swaps for upgraded turbochargers?
JB
Gentlemen, there are many ways to solve the problem of power.... None will ever be best for all. Let's leave it there.
Kevin, on my stock K16's, do you do core swaps for upgraded turbochargers?
JB
10-01-2007, 09:09 AM
#70
Three Wheelin'
Wow! I am speechless after reading some of these posts. No wonder my wife laughs at me when I read some of this crap. "Why do you waste your time reading that garbage?" Maybe she is right. You would think that we were back in grammar school discussing what modifications we have done to our bicycles. Banana seats versus single, bell versus a horn. It is a miracle that anyone can make an informed decision around here without the, "My tuner is better than your tuner" comments. I don't know Todd, have never spoken to him and I'm sure he is a great guy, but Kevin has always been and continues to be a great source for free information and advice with as far as I can determine no hidden agenda. For that we all should be grateful. BTW, I have not purchased any products from either tuner.
10-01-2007, 09:26 AM
#71
Three Wheelin'
Jesus Christ, you reall y are an idiot.
1) I guarantee you my 92' turbo would/will give your car a run for it's money
2) I have a 996tt as well numb nuts, I won't talk to much about it yet since it is in it's early stages, but I will say this, it will surpass a 700 kit when I am done
3) If you consider yourself the "big leagues" than I will stay in the minors, how much power ones car has doesn't prove anything you moron
Grow up Marty, you act like a 16 year old trying to prove how bug his ***** is
Christian
1) I guarantee you my 92' turbo would/will give your car a run for it's money
2) I have a 996tt as well numb nuts, I won't talk to much about it yet since it is in it's early stages, but I will say this, it will surpass a 700 kit when I am done
3) If you consider yourself the "big leagues" than I will stay in the minors, how much power ones car has doesn't prove anything you moron
Grow up Marty, you act like a 16 year old trying to prove how bug his ***** is
Christian
KPG,
How is your car running? and by the way, you may want to consider a real
engine builder rather than the dealer flunky your are using before you wind your car up to 8500 rpms and tell him you meant 2007, not 2008 it is soon
to be cold in eastern Michigan.
Oh, and I actually got the money from your wife, she says she is bored to tears.
KPG: After you first drove Markski's car were you 100% honest about the experience publically (on Rennlist/6Speed) or did your master, Kevin ask/tell you to not relay
what an un-fricking believable amount of power out of body experience
you told everyone else you had?? You could not even sleep, you were so
thrilled and amazed by the power right?? Didnt want to steal the thunder from
the ABC kits coming out right? Oh, it is so hard to be honest when you try
to befriend everyone
Also, I am sure you have an innate fear the Protomotive cars with GT30's...after all you
and UMW about had a heart atttack after OHIO GT2's dyno's were posted...
See you at the Texas mile right????
Christian:
go back and play with your single turbo, you are in the big leagues now and in fact
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).
Good to see everyone is keeping an unbiased viewpoint.
Like I said UMW appears to have some good stuff coming out but it is what is called
completeley unproven. Will it work? Who knows? Remember how long it has taken for
the GT700 kit to go from crap to great, not overnight, that is for sure. The MAF situation
was a nightmare for most to say the least. My experience with my underpowered little
Protomotive kit has been seamless (except for GReddy Boost control unit failure which
Pmotive overnighted to me). Hell my car was still faster than a new Z06 with no boost controller.
My 6.74 60-130mph was done on a fairly conservative boost setting and 99 octane unleaded, thru
a Europipe quiet exhuast with cats, hardly a hardcore set-up. KPG, mr. drift box; do you think I can beat the 6.74? How about if I run the boost that a GT700 runs ? How about if I turn it up higher like good ole SuperClown DMK himself? Now there is something to shoot for
I have learned to not believe
every dyno I see, and not believe every claim I read.
Good luck in your choices to those that this is not directly addressed to.
How is your car running? and by the way, you may want to consider a real
engine builder rather than the dealer flunky your are using before you wind your car up to 8500 rpms and tell him you meant 2007, not 2008 it is soon
to be cold in eastern Michigan.
Oh, and I actually got the money from your wife, she says she is bored to tears.
KPG: After you first drove Markski's car were you 100% honest about the experience publically (on Rennlist/6Speed) or did your master, Kevin ask/tell you to not relay
what an un-fricking believable amount of power out of body experience
you told everyone else you had?? You could not even sleep, you were so
thrilled and amazed by the power right?? Didnt want to steal the thunder from
the ABC kits coming out right? Oh, it is so hard to be honest when you try
to befriend everyone
Also, I am sure you have an innate fear the Protomotive cars with GT30's...after all you
and UMW about had a heart atttack after OHIO GT2's dyno's were posted...
See you at the Texas mile right????
Christian:
go back and play with your single turbo, you are in the big leagues now and in fact
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).
Good to see everyone is keeping an unbiased viewpoint.
Like I said UMW appears to have some good stuff coming out but it is what is called
completeley unproven. Will it work? Who knows? Remember how long it has taken for
the GT700 kit to go from crap to great, not overnight, that is for sure. The MAF situation
was a nightmare for most to say the least. My experience with my underpowered little
Protomotive kit has been seamless (except for GReddy Boost control unit failure which
Pmotive overnighted to me). Hell my car was still faster than a new Z06 with no boost controller.
My 6.74 60-130mph was done on a fairly conservative boost setting and 99 octane unleaded, thru
a Europipe quiet exhuast with cats, hardly a hardcore set-up. KPG, mr. drift box; do you think I can beat the 6.74? How about if I run the boost that a GT700 runs ? How about if I turn it up higher like good ole SuperClown DMK himself? Now there is something to shoot for
I have learned to not believe
every dyno I see, and not believe every claim I read.
Good luck in your choices to those that this is not directly addressed to.
10-01-2007, 10:04 AM
#72
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Christian,
Do you want to qualify for me how your little 92 is faster than a PE700 996TT?
My brainerd time of 1:52 ?
My Road America time of 2:39 ?
60-130 mph of 6.74 ?
Is your car able to beat this, really?
Please dont get so personal and use body parts to describe people, it is
even more sophmoric than what you are trying to point out.
Cheers,
MK
Do you want to qualify for me how your little 92 is faster than a PE700 996TT?
My brainerd time of 1:52 ?
My Road America time of 2:39 ?
60-130 mph of 6.74 ?
Is your car able to beat this, really?
Please dont get so personal and use body parts to describe people, it is
even more sophmoric than what you are trying to point out.
Cheers,
MK
10-01-2007, 10:22 AM
#73
Three Wheelin'
I am acting sophmoric, making remarks like this below is about as immature and assanin as one can make
Can my car beat yours, I dunno. My car is 2800lbs and 560 at the wheels
What has your car dyno'd at the wheels?
To be honest I could careless. How fast ones car is does not measure ones success or how good a person one is, you have made that quite clear as have several others on 6 Speed, there is alot more to life than a fast car
Christrian
(Christian:
go back and play with your single turbo, you are in the big leagues now and in fact
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).
Can my car beat yours, I dunno. My car is 2800lbs and 560 at the wheels
What has your car dyno'd at the wheels?
To be honest I could careless. How fast ones car is does not measure ones success or how good a person one is, you have made that quite clear as have several others on 6 Speed, there is alot more to life than a fast car
Christrian
(Christian:
go back and play with your single turbo, you are in the big leagues now and in fact
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).
10-01-2007, 11:05 AM
#74
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[QUOTE=Woodster;4627038]go back and play with your single turbo, you are in the big leagues now and in fact
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).QUOTE]
Also as the owner of a "small leagues" single turbo with a full Protomotive build. Down to windage on the case. I will guarantee your twin would spend most of its time looking at the back of that small league 965.
As for my 996TT which is going under a 4.0L Protomotive build. I suggest when you enter the "big leagues" and build an engine rather than your bolt on toys you truly understand what modifications are. One more thing, a 996TT running GT30's on stock internals at 1.5 bar is not modifing is being plain stupid, just a dyno queen.
are out of your league (and yes I had a 91 turbo, 993TT blah, blah, blah, they are nothing
like a properly tuned 996TT).QUOTE]
Also as the owner of a "small leagues" single turbo with a full Protomotive build. Down to windage on the case. I will guarantee your twin would spend most of its time looking at the back of that small league 965.
As for my 996TT which is going under a 4.0L Protomotive build. I suggest when you enter the "big leagues" and build an engine rather than your bolt on toys you truly understand what modifications are. One more thing, a 996TT running GT30's on stock internals at 1.5 bar is not modifing is being plain stupid, just a dyno queen.