Any experiences out there with the 9ff tuner?
08-07-2003, 09:28 PM
#61
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John,
As an attorney, could you set up a simple little escrow account where we could all send our donations for benefit of jro? I hope I'm not imposing or making a lot of work, for you, by suggesting this, if you have other ideas..I'm all ears.
As an attorney, could you set up a simple little escrow account where we could all send our donations for benefit of jro? I hope I'm not imposing or making a lot of work, for you, by suggesting this, if you have other ideas..I'm all ears.
08-07-2003, 10:41 PM
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I want to say a big thank you to everyone for all your generousity, and your understanding of my situation with 9ff. Everyone here contributing their thoughts, experiences, and support throughout this ordeal has helped me greatly. I am most certain that without forums and most importantly the people, I would be SOL. You all are number one in my book!
I am feeling very weird about the donation subject, and don't want to have anyone take my comments wrong, but I would find it very hard for myself personally to take the money. "The people that need to pay are 9ff." Call it principle, or this is where my money went to begin with.
I have to believe that something will eventually happen in my favor.
Please, if the funds are for a larger cause, than great, Ill contribute as well. I would like to see everyone that has been mishandled by 9ff, made right.
Sincerely,
John
I am feeling very weird about the donation subject, and don't want to have anyone take my comments wrong, but I would find it very hard for myself personally to take the money. "The people that need to pay are 9ff." Call it principle, or this is where my money went to begin with.
I have to believe that something will eventually happen in my favor.
Please, if the funds are for a larger cause, than great, Ill contribute as well. I would like to see everyone that has been mishandled by 9ff, made right.
Sincerely,
John
08-08-2003, 12:00 AM
#63
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Colm, I would be pleased to take the lead in setting up an account for Jro's benefit, and it wouldn't require that much effort at all. Because Jro has graciously expressed some reservations about the possibility of Rennlist members making financial contributions to make him whole, I will simply stand by, ready to assist as he wishes. Just give the signal and we can have a contribution vehicle up and running in no time.
Mindful that litigation is time consuming, expensive, and disruptive for all involved, I hope the 9ff folks see the light and do the right thing before any more $$ is spent to achieve the correct outcome here. Please keep us posted with any and all updates, Jro, and good luck!
Mindful that litigation is time consuming, expensive, and disruptive for all involved, I hope the 9ff folks see the light and do the right thing before any more $$ is spent to achieve the correct outcome here. Please keep us posted with any and all updates, Jro, and good luck!
08-08-2003, 02:37 AM
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John,
I'm with you, however their (9ff) actions to date leave me pessimistic. They look like they are trying to 'stonewall' the issue; and hope that it goes away with a minimum of fuss.
I feel very strongly about making the customer whole, it's the principle around which I have built my business.
I want to do my part to make sure that jro, or anyone else, is not left hanging out there.
He is being very selfless in his view, but I feel that if this forum is to distinguish itself it should enact a similar "selfless" philosophy articulated as "all for one and one for all".
Even at this late stage if 9ff were to act responsibly, I would be the first to appluad them. But I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they appointed the agent, that they are now trying to hide behind.
Our common sense of decency says, "let's not crucify a vendor; and let's ensure that no customer gets the shaft".
I want to see this forum exercise it's influence responsibly and credibly. I read on one post where some one suggested 'caveat emptor' but I take a different view..."The pioneers are the one's with the arrows in their backs". Nobody can reasonably protect themselves against fraudulent behavior when it occurs.
Jro has saved some of us a lot of grief....and he shouldn't stand alone, modest and unassuming as he is.
I appeal to my fellow Rennlisters to come through on this one, It will pay many dividends down the line in keeping vendors realistic in their claims.
If a vendor can "divide and conquer" this forum, then it truly is caveat emptor...and why are we here?
Let's exercise our muscle, and show the "iron behind the velvet".
I'm with you, however their (9ff) actions to date leave me pessimistic. They look like they are trying to 'stonewall' the issue; and hope that it goes away with a minimum of fuss.
I feel very strongly about making the customer whole, it's the principle around which I have built my business.
I want to do my part to make sure that jro, or anyone else, is not left hanging out there.
He is being very selfless in his view, but I feel that if this forum is to distinguish itself it should enact a similar "selfless" philosophy articulated as "all for one and one for all".
Even at this late stage if 9ff were to act responsibly, I would be the first to appluad them. But I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they appointed the agent, that they are now trying to hide behind.
Our common sense of decency says, "let's not crucify a vendor; and let's ensure that no customer gets the shaft".
I want to see this forum exercise it's influence responsibly and credibly. I read on one post where some one suggested 'caveat emptor' but I take a different view..."The pioneers are the one's with the arrows in their backs". Nobody can reasonably protect themselves against fraudulent behavior when it occurs.
Jro has saved some of us a lot of grief....and he shouldn't stand alone, modest and unassuming as he is.
I appeal to my fellow Rennlisters to come through on this one, It will pay many dividends down the line in keeping vendors realistic in their claims.
If a vendor can "divide and conquer" this forum, then it truly is caveat emptor...and why are we here?
Let's exercise our muscle, and show the "iron behind the velvet".
08-08-2003, 12:40 PM
#67
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John, i'm very sorry to hear this. I've dealt w/ crooks like this too. The guy who did some work on my hot rod decided to burn his shop down, and some how magically our car just happened to be at his house that night, needless to say he didn't want to give it back until it was complete, but we didn't care anymore and wanted the car back. We eventually had to go to his house and take it back. The next day the guy packed up and moved out of state.
08-09-2003, 01:58 PM
#68
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cjv,
Here the latest. I had heard recently through a few sources that wanted me to call him, and that Jan Fatthauer was going to call me from Germany. I made the call to yesterday and listened to his side of the situation, and his proposal for settlement. He also mentioned that he is legally going after 9ff in Germany. He stated to me that he was mis-led by the German arm of his company.
I told him that I needed to see the proposal in writing, and that I needed to review it with my attorney. He stated that I would have the proposal ready for my review on Sunday of this coming week.
No call from Jan fatthauer.
To expand a little further on the fuel pressure regulator. During the sales cycle, I was told by 9ff that they had a "secret trick" that they couldn't really disclose how they were to increase fuel pressure. I was informed later by their sponsored shop that they were instructed to bend (manually) something on the FPR to increase the pressure from 3.8 to 5.0 bar. looking back now, IMHO Not a very exact science for adjusting fuel pressure. I'm not sure if other tuners preform such tricks, and I would think a "dial your fuel pressure device" could be used to adjust fuel pressure. On a $50k motor, 9ff bends existing parts as part of the performance process is not inspiring. Also informing the shop that "the car needs to run of 98 octane to gain the performance figures or it will explore." My guess on the meaning of explore means detonation! again, $50k motor! I should also mention that the kit was supposed to come with a transmission oil cooler component. This never showed.
In my haste to have my car put together after Jan's June 17th visit didn't happen, I found out recently that the Modified FPR is still in my car. I found this out when AFR's were taken as a result of a dyno run. As stated previously, I called Todd at EVO to place a new ECU in my car. The car dyno'd in spec. of the EVO Stage 4 when in AZ. So maybe I still have more potential HP/TQ to be gained once the FPR is replaced. I will need to get the fuel pressure measured somehow and see if it is out of spec, and if so, I will have the FPR replaced. According to the AFRs the car is running rich above ~4200rpm.
I do not fault the AZ shop for this, they did their best to calm me, due to the fact that I was absolutely fed up at the time, and just wanted possession of my car. It was six hours of intense work, and me pacing like an animal.
You are right about the suspension it was in bad shape after very little miles. The kit didn't come with new rear drop links, my stock pieces were used. The front droplinks, that came with the kit were a danger to the braking components. The bolts used to connect the drop-links almost touched the brake-lines on full turn. 9ff was aware and part of the decision process that the droplink were being sub'd. Unfortunately, the substitution front drop links bent for some reason. I bought the sub'd droplinks from the AZ shop, and they promptly refunded my money.
Just to clarify, the driver side rear shock had blown, and was leaking oil and had no pressure. This whole situation can be confusing, especially with all that was/is wrong.
John
Here the latest. I had heard recently through a few sources that wanted me to call him, and that Jan Fatthauer was going to call me from Germany. I made the call to yesterday and listened to his side of the situation, and his proposal for settlement. He also mentioned that he is legally going after 9ff in Germany. He stated to me that he was mis-led by the German arm of his company.
I told him that I needed to see the proposal in writing, and that I needed to review it with my attorney. He stated that I would have the proposal ready for my review on Sunday of this coming week.
No call from Jan fatthauer.
To expand a little further on the fuel pressure regulator. During the sales cycle, I was told by 9ff that they had a "secret trick" that they couldn't really disclose how they were to increase fuel pressure. I was informed later by their sponsored shop that they were instructed to bend (manually) something on the FPR to increase the pressure from 3.8 to 5.0 bar. looking back now, IMHO Not a very exact science for adjusting fuel pressure. I'm not sure if other tuners preform such tricks, and I would think a "dial your fuel pressure device" could be used to adjust fuel pressure. On a $50k motor, 9ff bends existing parts as part of the performance process is not inspiring. Also informing the shop that "the car needs to run of 98 octane to gain the performance figures or it will explore." My guess on the meaning of explore means detonation! again, $50k motor! I should also mention that the kit was supposed to come with a transmission oil cooler component. This never showed.
In my haste to have my car put together after Jan's June 17th visit didn't happen, I found out recently that the Modified FPR is still in my car. I found this out when AFR's were taken as a result of a dyno run. As stated previously, I called Todd at EVO to place a new ECU in my car. The car dyno'd in spec. of the EVO Stage 4 when in AZ. So maybe I still have more potential HP/TQ to be gained once the FPR is replaced. I will need to get the fuel pressure measured somehow and see if it is out of spec, and if so, I will have the FPR replaced. According to the AFRs the car is running rich above ~4200rpm.
I do not fault the AZ shop for this, they did their best to calm me, due to the fact that I was absolutely fed up at the time, and just wanted possession of my car. It was six hours of intense work, and me pacing like an animal.
You are right about the suspension it was in bad shape after very little miles. The kit didn't come with new rear drop links, my stock pieces were used. The front droplinks, that came with the kit were a danger to the braking components. The bolts used to connect the drop-links almost touched the brake-lines on full turn. 9ff was aware and part of the decision process that the droplink were being sub'd. Unfortunately, the substitution front drop links bent for some reason. I bought the sub'd droplinks from the AZ shop, and they promptly refunded my money.
Just to clarify, the driver side rear shock had blown, and was leaking oil and had no pressure. This whole situation can be confusing, especially with all that was/is wrong.
John
Last edited by jro996turbo; 08-09-2003 at 02:30 PM.
08-09-2003, 02:34 PM
#69
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cjv,
You mentioned that you didn't notice a thread on Rennteam, which I believe is hosted in Germany. www.rennteam.com.
This occured yesterday by someone other than myself on the German forum. I will be observing this thread to see what kind of information comes to light.
You mentioned that you didn't notice a thread on Rennteam, which I believe is hosted in Germany. www.rennteam.com.
This occured yesterday by someone other than myself on the German forum. I will be observing this thread to see what kind of information comes to light.
08-10-2003, 12:10 AM
#70
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I don't own a 996TT, probably never will, but I want to contribute to the cause. Where/when can I send my $12. Also, let's xpost this to the 944 boards. They seem to have the most traffic.
Good luck John.
9ff, you seem to have opened a can of worms.
Good luck John.
9ff, you seem to have opened a can of worms.
08-10-2003, 12:38 AM
#71
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Hey Chad! use this....It is perfect http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr It will do the whole page
08-10-2003, 03:03 AM
#72
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Guys, this thread is amazing. Just another 944 owner here, but...
I hate companies that screw people over. I was screwed out of $1800+ by E-Commerce Exchange (www.ecx.com) , and am still working to get MY money back, now going on 1 year.....
With that said, I empathize. Therefore, on behalf of me and P-CarOnline.com, tell me where to PayPal the 12 bucks.
Too bad for 9ff, they got the 924/944/968 board involved now....
Good luck John.
I hate companies that screw people over. I was screwed out of $1800+ by E-Commerce Exchange (www.ecx.com) , and am still working to get MY money back, now going on 1 year.....
With that said, I empathize. Therefore, on behalf of me and P-CarOnline.com, tell me where to PayPal the 12 bucks.
Too bad for 9ff, they got the 924/944/968 board involved now....
Good luck John.
10-05-2003, 09:25 PM
#74
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Hi everyone, It has been a while. During the month of August, I tried to reason with Mr. Ballot, former 9ff USA president and failed. He says that he is busy building his new business, and that he would appreciate me helping him to get new customers to buy from him. Yeah right, where is my money!
He said that he agrees that I should be refunded all of my money, but will not commit actually commencing with paying or agreeing to a schedule. After about a month of discussions with , I came to the realization that why should I believe such a statement from someone that has lied to me in the past to gain my business. He told me many negative things about 9ff Germany, and how he was not aware of them at the time. I am not sure what to believe, so it is only fair for me not to make them public.
In mid-Sept 03, my attorney in AZ finally received my ECU and Car Registration via hand delivery, no return address provided . This was after 'many many' requests by myself.
I have received a report from the BBB of AZ about a week ago. I have reviewed the responses from Mr. Ballot in the report, and I have to say that I am not impressed with the additional lies made up by this person.
I have had some positive experiences with Jan Fatthauer, 9ff Germany. He has offered to refund my money on the parts. A total of $11,610. I have recieved a first payment of $4,975, and it is my understanding that I will received the balance this month. I have in return, shipped back the defective sport suspension, and as soon as I receive the final payment, the rest of the 9ff stuff will be returned. I had planned that once Jan came through with the $11,610, I would communicate that fact as well as others on the discussion boards.
I have been told by both and Jan Fatthauer that they will be pursuing each other legally in reference to their 9ff business relationship.
I am still out an excess of $10,000 for labor, expenses, and legal fees and have moved forward with a legal claim against Mr Ballot. The process is slow, but I am hoping that the outcome is positive for me.
He said that he agrees that I should be refunded all of my money, but will not commit actually commencing with paying or agreeing to a schedule. After about a month of discussions with , I came to the realization that why should I believe such a statement from someone that has lied to me in the past to gain my business. He told me many negative things about 9ff Germany, and how he was not aware of them at the time. I am not sure what to believe, so it is only fair for me not to make them public.
In mid-Sept 03, my attorney in AZ finally received my ECU and Car Registration via hand delivery, no return address provided . This was after 'many many' requests by myself.
I have received a report from the BBB of AZ about a week ago. I have reviewed the responses from Mr. Ballot in the report, and I have to say that I am not impressed with the additional lies made up by this person.
I have had some positive experiences with Jan Fatthauer, 9ff Germany. He has offered to refund my money on the parts. A total of $11,610. I have recieved a first payment of $4,975, and it is my understanding that I will received the balance this month. I have in return, shipped back the defective sport suspension, and as soon as I receive the final payment, the rest of the 9ff stuff will be returned. I had planned that once Jan came through with the $11,610, I would communicate that fact as well as others on the discussion boards.
I have been told by both and Jan Fatthauer that they will be pursuing each other legally in reference to their 9ff business relationship.
I am still out an excess of $10,000 for labor, expenses, and legal fees and have moved forward with a legal claim against Mr Ballot. The process is slow, but I am hoping that the outcome is positive for me.
10-06-2003, 01:09 AM
#75
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That is great news. What a hassle, but glad you are getting some of your money back. Being out $10K is still better than being out $20K..
Good luck with the rest of your fight.
Good luck with the rest of your fight.