Any experiences out there with the 9ff tuner?
07-13-2003, 10:37 PM
#17
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I called the shop doing the actual work and asked what the car dyno'd at. They told me, and supplied me with the data. I was not there in person, as it was a 9ffs sponsored shop in AZ that was doing the work, I live in CA as you know.
As far as what was wrong. This dyno was completed in the first few days of June. 9ff basically said the ECU is damaged, the cams were put in wrong, the front drive tran wasn't disconnected, wrong gas, etc. This certainly didn't inspire my confidence level. This kind trouble shooting went on until I picked up my car.
Chad,
Their promise to me was 587hp minimum at the crank, not 580hp. 9ff also provided a dyno sheet of 608hp to the crank. This was just before my first pickup attempt in mid-May.
As far as what was wrong. This dyno was completed in the first few days of June. 9ff basically said the ECU is damaged, the cams were put in wrong, the front drive tran wasn't disconnected, wrong gas, etc. This certainly didn't inspire my confidence level. This kind trouble shooting went on until I picked up my car.
Chad,
Their promise to me was 587hp minimum at the crank, not 580hp. 9ff also provided a dyno sheet of 608hp to the crank. This was just before my first pickup attempt in mid-May.
07-13-2003, 10:50 PM
#18
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This is very helpful info....I was considering 9ff's 587HP kit but they did not want to sell me the kit without the turbochargers (I already have X50!!) so I decided not to do it. I am so glad that I did not after reading these horror stories
07-16-2003, 08:40 PM
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Thanks for asking, here are the answers Chad.
1) There is an agreement that 9ff would provide approx. 587 fwhp and this would take ten days or two weeks?
Two weeks was the agreement. On or about, reasonable, not 4-5 times the agreement.
2) They picked up your car in California and took it to their tuner in Arizona?
Yes, the president of 9ff usa personally trailered my car to AZ, and delivered it to their sponsored Porsche shop. I found out much later that he lied to me about owning the trailer.
3) They had your car for approx. ten weeks and only were able to produce approx. 430 rwhp or approx. 516 fwhp? They had your car apart several times?
This is somewhat correct. The engine was out three times, Once to install the 9ff motor kit, second time because the cam for cylinders 4-5-6 was miss-timed, The shop corrected this, did a leak-down test, ok'd that, and proceeded to dyno the car. This took less than 6 hours to fix. The back of the airbox was also removed to increase airflow, suggested by 9ff, and as far as I can tell, only hot engine compartment air would get into the intake. 9ff wanted me to have the stock airbox cutout made larger. Luckily I didn't, and I did not have to buy a new airbox unit.
I have 11 dyno runs that were done on the car, and the highest was ~430rwhp, run number 10, which used a Evo Stage 4 Ecu in place of my modified 9ff Ecu. The car was filled with 104-octane race gas for the later runs, and the 430rwhp was run number 10 of 11, 11 was 423rwhp also Evo Stage 4 ECU. Dyno run 7 420rwhp was the highest hp achieved with the my modified 9ff ECU. I bought this kit to run on 91-octane and to produce the minimum 587hp.
Evo was kind enough to try to help us eliminate the ECU as a possible cause of the failure. After all of the 9ff motor was removed the car produced ~500rwhp first run with the Evo Ecu.
The third time to make available for Jan Fatthauer to review the installation with the mechanic of the 9ff sponsored shop, or to put my car back to its original engine form. The 9ff sponsored shop received a communication from the 9ff usa president threatening legal action, because they were answering "my" questions about "my" car. This made the shop very nervous, and it was decided to put my car back to its original form. minus the ECU that 9ff took possession of.
4) After ten weeks and lack of delivery of agreed to hp you picked up your car, had EVOMS make it drivable and brought it back home?
This is correct,
I was promised a first week of May delivery, didn't happen.
I was promised a week of May 19th delivery, didn't happen. I traveled to AZ during that week. and waited, spent money. 9ff said they would take care of the expense. I told 9ff verbally to have my car done by the next week, never happened.
The first week of June, I communicated to 9ff that they where in breach of the agreement.
On June 18th, I paid the 9ff sponsored Porsche shop for their labor & material while working on my car. I didn't feel right leaving without paying the people for their efforts, and I had a suspicions that they would not be paid by 9ff. Difficult situation.
5) When you got home you discovered the 9ff suspension, they installed had problems?
Yeap, loud banging noises in the front and rear mainly when exiting or entering driveways. I wanted to try to save the suspension because I liked the ride, unfortunately, it has been discovered that one of the rear shocks are blown, and there is a fair amount of re-work on the parts to make the suspension right for the car. Basically no miles on the suspension, and some pretty major issues. I was thinking, so where am I going to get customer service for this product. The solution was clear.
I am now replacing this defective kit with the Ruf 9-way adjustable system.
They will not refund your money and will not communicate with you???
Is this correct?
This is correct. My last communication from them was that they will refuse any further communication from me. 9ff has told me to talk to their attorney. Jan Fatthauer, 9ff owner, promised me that he would be at the sponsored shop in AZ on Tuesday the 17th of June to review the issue. I showed from California, he did not. 9ff claims they were at the 9ff sponsored shop on Thursday the 19th of June. I asked the shop owner, and he never saw them. I drove the car away on Wednesday June 18th. of that week. Enough is enough. My issue with this company wasn't just poor performance of their products, it was also a service and an honesty issue. Unacceptable, and had I known what I became aware of after mid-May, I would have not entered into this agreement.
Thanks for being concerned
Pictures of the products
http://hobbystage.net/porsche/jroturbo/
1) There is an agreement that 9ff would provide approx. 587 fwhp and this would take ten days or two weeks?
Two weeks was the agreement. On or about, reasonable, not 4-5 times the agreement.
2) They picked up your car in California and took it to their tuner in Arizona?
Yes, the president of 9ff usa personally trailered my car to AZ, and delivered it to their sponsored Porsche shop. I found out much later that he lied to me about owning the trailer.
3) They had your car for approx. ten weeks and only were able to produce approx. 430 rwhp or approx. 516 fwhp? They had your car apart several times?
This is somewhat correct. The engine was out three times, Once to install the 9ff motor kit, second time because the cam for cylinders 4-5-6 was miss-timed, The shop corrected this, did a leak-down test, ok'd that, and proceeded to dyno the car. This took less than 6 hours to fix. The back of the airbox was also removed to increase airflow, suggested by 9ff, and as far as I can tell, only hot engine compartment air would get into the intake. 9ff wanted me to have the stock airbox cutout made larger. Luckily I didn't, and I did not have to buy a new airbox unit.
I have 11 dyno runs that were done on the car, and the highest was ~430rwhp, run number 10, which used a Evo Stage 4 Ecu in place of my modified 9ff Ecu. The car was filled with 104-octane race gas for the later runs, and the 430rwhp was run number 10 of 11, 11 was 423rwhp also Evo Stage 4 ECU. Dyno run 7 420rwhp was the highest hp achieved with the my modified 9ff ECU. I bought this kit to run on 91-octane and to produce the minimum 587hp.
Evo was kind enough to try to help us eliminate the ECU as a possible cause of the failure. After all of the 9ff motor was removed the car produced ~500rwhp first run with the Evo Ecu.
The third time to make available for Jan Fatthauer to review the installation with the mechanic of the 9ff sponsored shop, or to put my car back to its original engine form. The 9ff sponsored shop received a communication from the 9ff usa president threatening legal action, because they were answering "my" questions about "my" car. This made the shop very nervous, and it was decided to put my car back to its original form. minus the ECU that 9ff took possession of.
4) After ten weeks and lack of delivery of agreed to hp you picked up your car, had EVOMS make it drivable and brought it back home?
This is correct,
I was promised a first week of May delivery, didn't happen.
I was promised a week of May 19th delivery, didn't happen. I traveled to AZ during that week. and waited, spent money. 9ff said they would take care of the expense. I told 9ff verbally to have my car done by the next week, never happened.
The first week of June, I communicated to 9ff that they where in breach of the agreement.
On June 18th, I paid the 9ff sponsored Porsche shop for their labor & material while working on my car. I didn't feel right leaving without paying the people for their efforts, and I had a suspicions that they would not be paid by 9ff. Difficult situation.
5) When you got home you discovered the 9ff suspension, they installed had problems?
Yeap, loud banging noises in the front and rear mainly when exiting or entering driveways. I wanted to try to save the suspension because I liked the ride, unfortunately, it has been discovered that one of the rear shocks are blown, and there is a fair amount of re-work on the parts to make the suspension right for the car. Basically no miles on the suspension, and some pretty major issues. I was thinking, so where am I going to get customer service for this product. The solution was clear.
I am now replacing this defective kit with the Ruf 9-way adjustable system.
They will not refund your money and will not communicate with you???
Is this correct?
This is correct. My last communication from them was that they will refuse any further communication from me. 9ff has told me to talk to their attorney. Jan Fatthauer, 9ff owner, promised me that he would be at the sponsored shop in AZ on Tuesday the 17th of June to review the issue. I showed from California, he did not. 9ff claims they were at the 9ff sponsored shop on Thursday the 19th of June. I asked the shop owner, and he never saw them. I drove the car away on Wednesday June 18th. of that week. Enough is enough. My issue with this company wasn't just poor performance of their products, it was also a service and an honesty issue. Unacceptable, and had I known what I became aware of after mid-May, I would have not entered into this agreement.
Thanks for being concerned
Pictures of the products
http://hobbystage.net/porsche/jroturbo/
Last edited by jro996turbo; 07-17-2003 at 11:46 AM.
07-19-2003, 05:36 AM
#21
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Good God allmighty and I was seriously thinking of buying stuff from these people!!! I'd sorry qbout your bad situation jro996turbo and I hope that it gets resolved to your satisfaction..
07-26-2003, 03:20 PM
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Hi Chad,
I've been quiet for a while, my car is back from the shop. Many engine tests have been preformed to document the condition of my car. Thanks to Rob I now have the data. Sorry I can not go into the details right now. I'm sure you will understand.
Quite the saga.. In the past 7-10 days, I have been in limited contact with 9ff Germany. I have been told by 9ff Germany that they want to make me satisfied, said that if don't get my damages paid by their US president, that they would pay.
The latest is that 9ff Germany said they have made a big mistake by hiring their US president, and that German law prevents 9ff Germany from paying my damages. 9ff Germany says that they will tell their US president to pay me my damages, and that I'm to return all of the parts and kits. The whole Germany law protection against US law thing is too weird to me. My opinion is that 9ff Germany is distancing themselves from their US President, I am not so sure that this protects them, since their US president signed the agreement for both the 9ff USA LLC and 9ff Fahrzeugtechnik GmbH. It is also interesting that all of 9ff advertises together. It is pretty clear on page 106 of the August excellence magazine that this company appears to be doing business as one entity.
In the mean time, my 2nd letter dealine date came and went with no response. I got frustrated, and sent an email to their US president telling him I am moving forward with the lawsuit. This lawsuit was to include additional damages... I think this got some attention.. because.......
My attorney received a call from 9ff US president's attorney. Seems that they want to make a counter-offer. I'm not sure why I need to compromise, I did nothing wrong. They took my car, signed an agreement to have my car back to me in two weeks, and that the kit would make minimum 587hp, not to mention all the other stuff that didn't pan out. the kit wasn't even close to the 587hp, and after multiple broken promises, and finding out about many lies, I took my car after 10 weeks.
IMHO, I had every right to take my car after all that 9ff "the company" did to me. They have taken my money and I have absolutely nothing to show for it! As far as I'm concerned, 9ff should pay me interest on my money that they have had for 3 or so months.
I have had some communication with the Attorney General of AZ. They're thinking it over. It seems that Califorina isn't the only state with budget problems, so they need to prioritize.
I guess I should also mention that shipping stuff back to 9ff in the USA is pretty cumbersome and expensive since 9ff USA runs their business out of an apartment. Sending large packages to this address seems to be a real pain for UPS, and they in turn charge for this additional service. I learned this wonderful piece of information about the apt. after attempting to visit 9ff USA during my tenth week.
And the saga drags on......................
I've been quiet for a while, my car is back from the shop. Many engine tests have been preformed to document the condition of my car. Thanks to Rob I now have the data. Sorry I can not go into the details right now. I'm sure you will understand.
Quite the saga.. In the past 7-10 days, I have been in limited contact with 9ff Germany. I have been told by 9ff Germany that they want to make me satisfied, said that if don't get my damages paid by their US president, that they would pay.
The latest is that 9ff Germany said they have made a big mistake by hiring their US president, and that German law prevents 9ff Germany from paying my damages. 9ff Germany says that they will tell their US president to pay me my damages, and that I'm to return all of the parts and kits. The whole Germany law protection against US law thing is too weird to me. My opinion is that 9ff Germany is distancing themselves from their US President, I am not so sure that this protects them, since their US president signed the agreement for both the 9ff USA LLC and 9ff Fahrzeugtechnik GmbH. It is also interesting that all of 9ff advertises together. It is pretty clear on page 106 of the August excellence magazine that this company appears to be doing business as one entity.
In the mean time, my 2nd letter dealine date came and went with no response. I got frustrated, and sent an email to their US president telling him I am moving forward with the lawsuit. This lawsuit was to include additional damages... I think this got some attention.. because.......
My attorney received a call from 9ff US president's attorney. Seems that they want to make a counter-offer. I'm not sure why I need to compromise, I did nothing wrong. They took my car, signed an agreement to have my car back to me in two weeks, and that the kit would make minimum 587hp, not to mention all the other stuff that didn't pan out. the kit wasn't even close to the 587hp, and after multiple broken promises, and finding out about many lies, I took my car after 10 weeks.
IMHO, I had every right to take my car after all that 9ff "the company" did to me. They have taken my money and I have absolutely nothing to show for it! As far as I'm concerned, 9ff should pay me interest on my money that they have had for 3 or so months.
I have had some communication with the Attorney General of AZ. They're thinking it over. It seems that Califorina isn't the only state with budget problems, so they need to prioritize.
I guess I should also mention that shipping stuff back to 9ff in the USA is pretty cumbersome and expensive since 9ff USA runs their business out of an apartment. Sending large packages to this address seems to be a real pain for UPS, and they in turn charge for this additional service. I learned this wonderful piece of information about the apt. after attempting to visit 9ff USA during my tenth week.
And the saga drags on......................
Last edited by jro996turbo; 07-26-2003 at 03:43 PM.
07-26-2003, 05:06 PM
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I'm hoping too. All I want is my damages paid, and to go on with my life. This issue has already taken too much of my time to finalize. Geezz...
08-02-2003, 11:48 PM
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Chad,
Not good news. I was told that I would get some kind of response by the end of last week. Nothing! I gave my attorney approval to proceed with the lawsuit earlier this week. My attorney faxed 9ffs' attorney this fact, and they responded that they would have a response by the end of this week, and a lawsuit was not necessary.... Nothing again.
Frustrating to say the least...
Jan Fatthauer, 9ff's owner in Germany communicated to me that he will instruct his US president to pay me my damages. He was going to do this last week. No check, and no communication, nothing. Other dealers have offered to help this situation. These dealers clearly understand my position, and want to help try to resolve the situation, but the two primary people involved with me at 9ff just ignore.
I guess the only way forward is to file the lawsuit. I have tried to be patient, be clear as to what is required, and these people just ignore me.
Not good news. I was told that I would get some kind of response by the end of last week. Nothing! I gave my attorney approval to proceed with the lawsuit earlier this week. My attorney faxed 9ffs' attorney this fact, and they responded that they would have a response by the end of this week, and a lawsuit was not necessary.... Nothing again.
Frustrating to say the least...
Jan Fatthauer, 9ff's owner in Germany communicated to me that he will instruct his US president to pay me my damages. He was going to do this last week. No check, and no communication, nothing. Other dealers have offered to help this situation. These dealers clearly understand my position, and want to help try to resolve the situation, but the two primary people involved with me at 9ff just ignore.
I guess the only way forward is to file the lawsuit. I have tried to be patient, be clear as to what is required, and these people just ignore me.
08-03-2003, 01:58 AM
#26
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Anyone seen this??
http://www.9ff-usa.com/9ff/default.htm
This is what it says on that link:
"9FFUSA, PERFECT POWER AND C2 DESIGN
ARE NO LONGER AFFILIATED WITH 9FF GERMANY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS"
very shady....
http://www.9ff-usa.com/9ff/default.htm
This is what it says on that link:
"9FFUSA, PERFECT POWER AND C2 DESIGN
ARE NO LONGER AFFILIATED WITH 9FF GERMANY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS"
very shady....
08-03-2003, 02:40 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
WHOA!!!!
The same message comes up with any of the address suffixes removed. This does not look good for you John. You said 9ff-usa was one man in an apartment. If he has closed up shop (and moved?), who is the lawsuit filed against? This looks bleek. Keep us posted.
Incidentally, the German site is still up.
http://www.9ff.de/
The same message comes up with any of the address suffixes removed. This does not look good for you John. You said 9ff-usa was one man in an apartment. If he has closed up shop (and moved?), who is the lawsuit filed against? This looks bleek. Keep us posted.
Incidentally, the German site is still up.
http://www.9ff.de/
08-03-2003, 05:56 AM
#28
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I have also filed a complaint against him and have my attorney working on it for you. That man is in trouble and if any consulation I will do anything to help you John, this is too far. Any lawyer's on the board who can maybe fill in...
Good luck.
08-04-2003, 12:33 AM
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John,
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I was fortunate to have only bought a couple things from 9ff with no problems. But I could see that something was up with this company. would keep on calling my cell phone 2-3 times a day. Any body trying to contact me that much is looking at damage control. Thank God for caller ID!
John, as well I have had recent misfortunes with a tuner myself. They have caused me time and money. But what I did was approach them directly. I documented everything and gave them a chance to either compensate me or I will post my experiences on the web. They have been very supportive now and will compensate me.
The web is a VERY POWERFUL form of media and 9ff would be wise to compensate you fully. They have to look at the big picture. Either loosing several thousands of $ now or losing current or future customers, in addition to spending more $$$ on damage control.
Let us know how everything goes!
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I was fortunate to have only bought a couple things from 9ff with no problems. But I could see that something was up with this company. would keep on calling my cell phone 2-3 times a day. Any body trying to contact me that much is looking at damage control. Thank God for caller ID!
John, as well I have had recent misfortunes with a tuner myself. They have caused me time and money. But what I did was approach them directly. I documented everything and gave them a chance to either compensate me or I will post my experiences on the web. They have been very supportive now and will compensate me.
The web is a VERY POWERFUL form of media and 9ff would be wise to compensate you fully. They have to look at the big picture. Either loosing several thousands of $ now or losing current or future customers, in addition to spending more $$$ on damage control.
Let us know how everything goes!