9Eleven

Hell, show me an American Team that uses it. Rolex series, Lemans, Speed GT. If they did, imagine the free advertisement. I'm sure if one race team placed a sticker on the side of their race car, for example, EVO V-Flow or K&N Power Kit, that would speak volumes and give their product some credibility. But there is not one race team that I know of that utilizes any of these so called air box power kits. Including after market DV's. Here is another company making air intake horsepower claims for domestic cars. A relative bargain for 229.99 to 279.99 depending on your vehicle. Are you a believer?

http://www.framboost.com/boostdetails.cfm

pole position

Once upon a time good ol' " I show Weisach how it is done " Todd Z had a company called Zuks or something similar and of course developed one of those magic hp potion in form of a airbox which, if I am not mistaken, was called the , never short of dramatic names , "Powerflow".

So, one customer bought this incredible device to unleash all the hp in his car because dumb Porsche are only into marketing, they have fired all their engineers.

Funny thing, this wonder of the world airbox did not deliver as promised and the upset customer contacted Excellence which agreed to do a independent dyno test with Todd Z present.

Again, when the moment of truth arrived, to the surprise of all, no gains and I forgot if there were any losses. So Todd said the ECU has to adept and let's drive it . So they drove, tested it, drove again, tested , drove some more, tested and finnally ran out of time with zero gains on the dyno.................but Todd kept saying we need to drive some more for the ECU to adept............

Then Zuks disappeared and EVO rose from the ashes and voila, here we have the V- FLOW, notice the dramatic name again, still outhinking those lame Porsche marketeers what a true "inhaler" can do to press you in your seat.

wross996tt

I think that original 993 airbox lost power the whole range. He replaced them with a new airbox. Still no gains?

Zippy

Shane - if I may migrate temporarily from the EVO bashing bitches and get back to your issue...

You say you're hitting 1.1 bar almost instantly. I think you may be hitting the 1.3 bar throttle body shut down. I had this happen on my GT640 kit. I had this installed early on in it's release, before the bypass was implemented. I first got the TB shutdown on the 640 kit immediately after adding the VFlow and FDV Intake plenum. The increased airflow allowed the turbos to spool too high and WHAM. 0.5 bad. Same as you, it would come usually go after shut down... untill I did a high load pull. I also considered you didn't get the intake tube fully pushed into the OEM plenum rubber piece, but since you reinstalled the VFlow several times, this is probably not the case.

Mike

Dock

It's hard to say "Yea, exactly" when I haven't had a chance to reply.

My data? -there are too many cars running perfectly fine with them installed.

There are perscription drugs that I've tried that did not work for me. Does this mean that those particular drugs are unreliable?

Based on your comment quoted here, you need much more practice with your clairvoince.

Dock

Right, and if Stephen/Todd did a baseline dyno, then installed the component and ran another dyno without a cool down, then the actual power increase would be *higher* than claimed.

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I don't personally care if people believe the V-Flow dyno data...that's an individuals personal decision. The V-Flow installed on my Turbo has been 100% reliable, and the improved throttle response alone has been worth the price. If the V-Flow had caused problems because of it's synergistic effect with some underlying engine issue(s), I would have just sent it back and requested a full refund - not a big deal with me at all.

KPG

Dock, interesting analogy with the prescription drugs. I wonder how the FDA would feel about a product that makes half the people who take it feel wonderful, but the other half is incapacitated from using it. Your analogy missed the larger point. You have tried prescriptions that did not work, but did no other harm. I am sure if those prescriptions put you out of commission your outlook on the product may change. Again, glad you are happy with the product. Perhaps the scope of this thread should be changed. Maybe we should not discuss the fact it causes CEL's on many cars, but how it actually performs on those vehicles it doesn't. Kevin

Dock

I don't know.

What I do know is that the drug I was prescribed just caused a minor side effect (the human equivalent of a CEL, and/or half boost) - there was no "incapacitation" about it.

If, by your FDA question, you are implying that there is enough data available to assign a 50% "incapacitation" rate for those cars with the V-Flow, I think you're really stretching it.

wross996tt

Guys, I think the whole dynamics of the intake/maf/airflow, and the communication with the ECU...is quite complex. When we play with the components of this system, we risk disrupting it for the potential reward of an increase in...power/response/etc. There are times when the combination of components and other factors such as environemntal conditions works out just right. There are times when it doesn't. I think its great that tuners are constantly experimenting (although I could propose some better DOE techniques) and pushing the envelope and sometimes even coming up with a product for production. This is a difficult task. We users should be cognizant of the fact that published claims (dynos et. al.,) are a form of advertising and are certainly not fact. We users should always recognize the risks we take...and therefore be prepared to get results are not what were claimed. We are also pushing the envelope. Enough of my rant...carry on.

Dock

I thought that the original Excellence test was done on a tip, which at the time few (if any) knew would go into limp mode on a 2WD dyno that didn’t allow the front wheels to spin - which is why it lost power. Later, Excellence retested the PowerFlow on a 6 speed 996 and it made power. As I remember, Bruce (from Excellence) printed this information in a later issue of Excellence.

Dock

Here is a base versus V-Flow dyno...

KPG

Dock, if you think routine MAF failures, PSM/ABS faults, CEL's and reduced boost is a " minor " side effect , I guess I will stipulate that it is a judgement call for the vehicle's owner.
As for the 50% quote, I was working in the parameters of this thread and the poster's previous poll which is currently at 56% with probs, 44% without. Now before you start typing away claiming it is hardly scientific or a large enough data pool ... I agree, but that is what this thread is based on. Half are happy , half are not. I was curious why you did not respond to Jean's comments? Do you actually think Porsche is afraid of the tuners? Also,if it is such easy HP Porsche left on the table why no motorsports use? OK, you have a dyno sheet... I am a believer. Kevin

9Eleven

Where did you get that dyno sheet? I could not find any dyno sheet on their website. Performed by whom? What type of dyno? In what type of enviroment? Which pull was done first? What was the time lapse between pulls? What type of car was used? Was it the same car for both pulls? Was the car that was used modified? Why are the torque numbers read at a higher rpm for the additional 15 ft/lbs of torque? A lot of room for discrepencies and manipulation.

JP Schnitzer

My misadventure with the V flow cost me plenty. In the end I took the V flow out, and went back to the stock box and paper filter....no problems since....When you add up the dollars I spent trying to fix (MAF's, install charges, scan's, shipping, etc) and the mental toll of going to Laguna Seca (a rare opportunity) with a misfiring car...the cost was very high.....It is the one product that really clouds Evo's image...I think they should pull it off the market for their own good, if not to avoid all the BS that owners have to go through.

Dock

And there's the problem. The poll is titled "Did you have any issues with the V-Flow intake" but people voted based on what? An actual problem caused specifically by the V-Flow? That's what we can't nail down...what's causing the problem on those cars with the V-Flow. There have been 28 votes, and from what I can determine, only 9 posted to say something about their vote. None of these guys were able to say what the real cause of their problem was.