Oak

it's the marketings fault.

Dock

Sure you are.

KPG

Dock, if a magic 50+hp was what they were looking for perhaps they should have called GIAC. Kevin

9Eleven

Why would you imply that? If I doubt a claim on a modification from a manufacturer with no independent evidence, I'm a bad guy? I guess it's my loss if I don't install it on my car. I'll just have to take the chance of losing all of that alleged easy horsepower.

But, before I install anything on my 100 plus thousand dollar car, I will excercise due dilligence or else shame on me. BTW, where are those dyno and airflow results? I haven't been able to find them on any of the websites claiming their additional HP for this product.

9Eleven

No, it's not and that's the point. They should all be held to a standard regarding horsepower claims. Before they can claim the increase, there should be an independent verification. Otherwise there is no difference between automotive tuners and infomercials.

How many people believe that nitrogen in your tires will do all it claims to do? Would you spend the money to put it in your tires? But there are people out there that will swear by it. I just saw a news story claiming how great it is for gas mileage, tire wear, you name it.

KPG

Clearly they could up with extra hp as you say, but for 695$? The whole point is if they could come up with the extra hp as you say, why engineer a kit with new turbos, IC and programming? Just get the Vflow. Dock, I am genuinely happy that you have a VFlow and are happy with it . Your car, your money, your choice. As for it being different for other vehicles... well it is. Next time you are at a Borders or Barnes and Noble, flip thru any of the GM, Ford or Mopar mags and they do dyno tests on specific parts every issue... heads , cams , intake , superchargers and exhausts. They take the dyno data and back it up at the track as well. Kevin

Dock

So do I.

Stephen posted his same day dyno results here when he announced the availability of the V-Flow from IA.

If you're in the process of doing due diligence, I suggest (if you haven't already done so) you contact Stephen and Todd to get specific information from them. I believe Todd states on his web site that he did flow measurements when designing the V-Flow. Stephen probably still has the dynos from the A/B testing he did on the dyno.

Dock

Because for one thing, it would be admitting that the tuners were right - something I don't think Porsche wants to get into.

So you're telling me that they see a 15 hp increase on the dyno translating to measurable track time differences that can unequivocally be related to the increase in horsepower?

Dock

So are you suggesting a law for this?

9Eleven

Dock, I did not know that you installed the V-flow on your car. Please don't take my remarks as an insult. Just a little healthy scepticism. I'm glad it works for you and you feel you've gotten your moneys worth. But again, a dyno by the manufacturer is not very independent.

As I said, if it does produce the horsepower as claimed, it will be my loss. I can give you just as many tuners, professional race car drivers, and race mechanics on Rolex series teams, that will provide you will real world evidence that they have seen absolutely no gain from many products claiming power gains. I'm sure if they could gain 20 horse here and 20 horse there to assist them during a race, they would be all over it.

KPG

Dock, where did I say "unequivocally" related to anything. The point I am trying to make is when was the last time a mag or other entity that didnt produce the product do a test on it. I am going to bow out of this thread because it is clear to me this is a sore spot for you and I do not want hard feelings with a single person on this or any other board. Once again, I am truly happy that you are satisfied with your purchase. Have a good night. Kevin

9Eleven

Ouch, another law? I don't think that's the answer. I am drowning in law. Maybe pressure from consumers to show us independent results before making a purchase. Do you think some of these items claiming these horsepower gains would be available if there was an agency responsible for verifying their claims? I wonder.

Dock

Suit yourself, but this topic is so far from a "sore spot" for me that it isn't even funny.

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I asked in terms of "unequivocally" because for the data (the magazine track testing) you cited to be accurate, it has to be measurable to the extent that all the other variables that could effect the outcome have been eliminated.

KPG

You know Dock, while I am waiting for your response. I assume the Vflow data you cite has been " accurate to the extent that all the other variables that could effect outcome have been eliminated ". Correct? Kevin

Dock

Yes - after due diligence (reviewing data), a year later and +9000 miles of use - it still hasn't presented any problems at all. My personal assessment is it also improves throttle response, and in my opinion it would be worth it just for that.