9Eleven

I am honestly glad that your V-flow has given you and continues to give you a positive experience. If you ever come up to Maryland for a visit, send me a PM, we can meet for a beer.

Dock

No problem. You said..."They take the dyno data and back it up at the track as well." Why would this statement be relevant if the data they reported had no accuracy? Independent testing without accuracy offers no net gain in product information.

Dock

Thanks, the offer stands here as well if you get to Atlanta.

9Eleven

I agree completely, they should all be held to an accuracy standard. Otherwise there should be fine print. "These horsepower/torque increases have not been independently verified, your performance gain may vary." What do you think?

wross996tt

Well...I probably should stay out of this, but being a statistician I am quite amused by some of the posts. I actually believe that there are some interactions between the V-flow (and perhaps other non-stock intakes) and our cars performance. By interaction I mean that the V-flow is not in itself the sole causal factor, but in combination with some other factors (like environmental, altitude or other mods). I certainly do not have a large data set as I have just one Turbo (n=1), but I know that the V-flow did not work for me....3 blown MAFs, ABS/PCM & CEL..removed it and no more problems.

KPG

Dock, you and I can drive the same car at the track and post significantly different times. Would either of them not be accurate? Any test on a track has far too many variables to be definitive. I take any data from a magazine as a guide only. The fact they are testing is the benefit to the prospective buyer. Kevin

KPG

Purely coincidence your car performs better without the Vflow Kevin

Dock

No, and I haven't claimed it to be.

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Performing an A/B dyno where the only hardware change is the product in question, provides one of the best methods for determining power gains while eliminating many variables. It provides a way to measure pretty small power differences. On the other hand, track testing not only has many variables that can not be controlled, it also fails to measure the small differences the dyno can.

Of course, one has to believe the dyno's mechanics/software, and operator...even if you're present for the test.

Dock

As long as it isn't a law, no problem.

Dock

Got to go...working tomorrow, and will be away from the computer until Sunday afternoon. I'll check back then...

KPG

Perhaps we are starting to agree! I think given a relatively modest gain.. +-20 hp, would it be unreasonable to expect that dyno conditions cannot be controlled to give a highly accurate reading.For example, If you do a performance run with the product and then do a baseline. The heat soak alone will cause several HP or more to be lost. It this accurate? Yes, one would have to put a lot of faith in the operator and the software especially given their vested interest in seeing the product succeed. There is no easy answer to this. Just for the record, I had a GIAC stage 2 and was 100 percent satisfied with their product. When I chose to move up to larger turbos their products did not suit my goals. Kevin

TB993tt

Years ago I bought into the "ram air" intake pitch - spent over $1K on a Gruppe M intake for my 993tt, the product was claiming +15hp and the company seemed high tech and credible click on 993GT2 to see it:

http://www.gruppemeurope.com/frc_porsche1.html#

I was quite happy with my extra power until a year later in the process of an upgrade session the RS Tuning engine dyno revealed that the magic intake actually LOST 10hp - suffice to say I am back to stock with a BMC panel.

To be fair I told this story when the EVO V Flow came out there was a technical explanation given for why the V Flow works etc.... but I've never seen an independant engine dyno test and non of the racers in Europe use them - so I guess you make your own mind up

Jean

So if you get one of these EVO intakes and a set of EVO intercoolers you can gain about 50BHP for 3.5k USD.. What were Porsche engineers thinking?

I am sure they pay money to force tuners not to publish independent engine dyno data. because they would be embarassed for not knowing how to weld those couple of pipes.

BTW TB993TT, European race teams suck.

Woodster

None of the racers in Europe use them,

Shark

And where is YOUR data? Yeah, exactly

Some cars are allergic? Doesn't that mean failure? As a former Quality Control Engineer, I can tell you there are times when the root cause cannot be determined....and rather than risk reputation and warranty expenditures we had to scrap products.

Despite your claims to the contrary, you obviously have a hard-on for this high risk, low reward (15 hp?) product.

Compare the failure record against other add-on products.....how many ECUs are damaged by flashes....how many transmissions are damaged from short shift kits....how many clutches are damaged by light flywheels? Few, any?

It is clear that a 996TT intake system cannot use this product in a statistically significant number of cases, so why take a chance buying it?