996TT Vs Supra TT
06-08-2002, 02:18 PM
#46
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:-)
The Viper had the first time 800 HP now it is reduced to (the say 500 hp) but if you see how it puls on the straigts against the 550 Turbo HP from Nissan Skyline or the 460 Hp of teh moded Gt3 then you know it has more than that and it has also more weight.
Anyway the guy who runs teh viper for 4 years now is teh guy who races the Privat Gt1 Porsche against the Factory etc in the FIA GT. I bet he can winn it doesn't matter which car he has;-)
He knows his job quite well.
Do not forget the Viper runs one class above teh Porsches.
in Class8. Porsch race in Class 7.
It is 8 L against 3,6 L Both NA engines. No chanche for the Porsche untill they come with a bigger engine or a Turbocharged GT2. The Viper has more than twice as Much more CC than the Porsche.
It is the same if the GT3 would race against a 2.2 l engine car.
there is nothing you can do against bigger CC engines unless you add a Turbo (better two turbos) ;-)
Konstantin
The Viper had the first time 800 HP now it is reduced to (the say 500 hp) but if you see how it puls on the straigts against the 550 Turbo HP from Nissan Skyline or the 460 Hp of teh moded Gt3 then you know it has more than that and it has also more weight.
Anyway the guy who runs teh viper for 4 years now is teh guy who races the Privat Gt1 Porsche against the Factory etc in the FIA GT. I bet he can winn it doesn't matter which car he has;-)
He knows his job quite well.
Do not forget the Viper runs one class above teh Porsches.
in Class8. Porsch race in Class 7.
It is 8 L against 3,6 L Both NA engines. No chanche for the Porsche untill they come with a bigger engine or a Turbocharged GT2. The Viper has more than twice as Much more CC than the Porsche.
It is the same if the GT3 would race against a 2.2 l engine car.
there is nothing you can do against bigger CC engines unless you add a Turbo (better two turbos) ;-)
Konstantin
06-08-2002, 08:50 PM
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Konstantin,
Are you sure about the Viper info? I got this info off the VCA site
"The Falken Motorsports Skyline which finished 5th was rated at "over 500 hp", same as last year. The Zakspeed Viper was also rated at "over 500" last year, but I've heard that in previous years (in '99 when it won and in '00 when it didn't) power was around the 700 hp mark. This year, however, the Zakspeed was rated at 450 DIN ps, which is about 443 hp going by SAE net standards. So, less than even a standard, US-spec Viper. Weight is down to 2,976 lbs."
I am sure reliabilty and brakes are more important in a race like this than hp. Sounds like a fun race. Hopefully some 996 GT-2's will enter next year.
I totally agree with your last statement. As we say in the US, there is no replacement for displacement.
P.S.
Was the race televised in Germany? Our SpeedChannel seemed to busy running NASCAR reruns to show it......
Ciao
Are you sure about the Viper info? I got this info off the VCA site
"The Falken Motorsports Skyline which finished 5th was rated at "over 500 hp", same as last year. The Zakspeed Viper was also rated at "over 500" last year, but I've heard that in previous years (in '99 when it won and in '00 when it didn't) power was around the 700 hp mark. This year, however, the Zakspeed was rated at 450 DIN ps, which is about 443 hp going by SAE net standards. So, less than even a standard, US-spec Viper. Weight is down to 2,976 lbs."
I am sure reliabilty and brakes are more important in a race like this than hp. Sounds like a fun race. Hopefully some 996 GT-2's will enter next year.
I totally agree with your last statement. As we say in the US, there is no replacement for displacement.
P.S.
Was the race televised in Germany? Our SpeedChannel seemed to busy running NASCAR reruns to show it......
Ciao
06-09-2002, 04:47 PM
#48
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<Are you sure about the Viper info? I got this info off the VCA site >
I do not need the web sites etc for these infos;-)) If you have conections and know the drivers and the team chiefs you know what the real HP on these cars are.
Do not believe everything you hear.
Or you can take a look at the "nurburgring list" and see what racers who knows the cars and the RING speak about the cars and especially about the viper.
Even if you do not have this acces, if you just watch 1 lap and see how the Viper pulls of the "over 500 HP Skyline) or the 460 HP GT3R and if you consider that the Viper has more weight, then you can see that there is no way that is has "only" 458 HP (or what ever they claim)
The race was showed for the first 2 hours, then 2 hours in the night and from 08:00 in the mornig till the end.
they also showed some other races since they race from Wednesdaytill Sunday and the 24 H is only a part of the big event
you can chek the <a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/index.php4?language=en" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/index.php4?language=en</a>
for more infos.
or teh <a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-1400.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-1400.pdf</a>
for the results.
this is teh RING list but it is only in geramn and you can write only if you have a "year Ring pass" to race at the ring the whole year with no löaps limits.
<a href="http://www2.nurburgring.de/web/forum/index.php" target="_blank">http://www2.nurburgring.de/web/forum/index.php</a>
Konstantin
I do not need the web sites etc for these infos;-)) If you have conections and know the drivers and the team chiefs you know what the real HP on these cars are.
Do not believe everything you hear.
Or you can take a look at the "nurburgring list" and see what racers who knows the cars and the RING speak about the cars and especially about the viper.
Even if you do not have this acces, if you just watch 1 lap and see how the Viper pulls of the "over 500 HP Skyline) or the 460 HP GT3R and if you consider that the Viper has more weight, then you can see that there is no way that is has "only" 458 HP (or what ever they claim)
The race was showed for the first 2 hours, then 2 hours in the night and from 08:00 in the mornig till the end.
they also showed some other races since they race from Wednesdaytill Sunday and the 24 H is only a part of the big event
you can chek the <a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/index.php4?language=en" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/index.php4?language=en</a>
for more infos.
or teh <a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-1400.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-1400.pdf</a>
for the results.
this is teh RING list but it is only in geramn and you can write only if you have a "year Ring pass" to race at the ring the whole year with no löaps limits.
<a href="http://www2.nurburgring.de/web/forum/index.php" target="_blank">http://www2.nurburgring.de/web/forum/index.php</a>
Konstantin
06-10-2002, 01:01 AM
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Thanks for the information. Sounds like they are under-rating the Zakspeed Viper. 443 hp seems pretty low when my nearly stock 97 has 422 at the rear wheels.
Most Vipers are required to run with significant restrictors to allow other cars to be competitive. Check out these on a GTSR!
Have fun hosting F-1 in two weeks!
Most Vipers are required to run with significant restrictors to allow other cars to be competitive. Check out these on a GTSR!
Have fun hosting F-1 in two weeks!
06-10-2002, 12:16 PM
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Hi Guys,
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx
06-10-2002, 03:23 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by styx:
<strong>Hi Guys,
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx</strong><hr></blockquote>
60k miles with over 600rwhp is not reliable? Get real, my guess is that you know absolutly nothing about the Supra. BTW, how many 24 hour races have you participated in?
<strong>Hi Guys,
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx</strong><hr></blockquote>
60k miles with over 600rwhp is not reliable? Get real, my guess is that you know absolutly nothing about the Supra. BTW, how many 24 hour races have you participated in?
06-10-2002, 04:35 PM
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Hi Zach,
60k miles. What race was that?
And what do i have to do with 24 hour races?
I only said that there is no Asian car in the
GT/GTS class of Le Mans.
May be you can tell me why.
cu
styx
60k miles. What race was that?
And what do i have to do with 24 hour races?
I only said that there is no Asian car in the
GT/GTS class of Le Mans.
May be you can tell me why.
cu
styx
06-10-2002, 05:26 PM
#53
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Pardon me for jumping in here, but I felt a few links to Series Regulations might frame part of this thread. For those who can be bothered here is some bed-time reading.
<a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-24h-ausschreibung.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-24h-ausschreibung.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.lemans.org/course/auto2001/pdf/reglement_lmgt_gb1_2001_all.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.lemans.org/course/auto2001/pdf/reglement_lmgt_gb1_2001_all.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.sportscarchampionship.com/regulations/2002technicalregulations.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sportscarchampionship.com/regulations/2002technicalregulations.pdf</a>
Interesting reading for those with motorsport links (some will know them line by line)
Talk to a motorsport engine builder and after taking into account the relevant regulations involved, he will quote reliability, driveabilty and fuel efficiency as the key factors to success.
Reliability is centered around rebuild hours - any 24hr race stretches this rebuild period to the maximum.
Driveability will involve horsepower, torque and power delivery characteristics. For example the Le Mans winning Audi R8 engine is quoted at 610bhp, 516lb ft.
Fuel efficiency is critical especially over the longer events.
Now you probably all knew all the above, but just in case you didn't....
<a href="http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-24h-ausschreibung.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.24h-rennen.de/binaries/2002-24h-ausschreibung.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.lemans.org/course/auto2001/pdf/reglement_lmgt_gb1_2001_all.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.lemans.org/course/auto2001/pdf/reglement_lmgt_gb1_2001_all.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.sportscarchampionship.com/regulations/2002technicalregulations.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sportscarchampionship.com/regulations/2002technicalregulations.pdf</a>
Interesting reading for those with motorsport links (some will know them line by line)
Talk to a motorsport engine builder and after taking into account the relevant regulations involved, he will quote reliability, driveabilty and fuel efficiency as the key factors to success.
Reliability is centered around rebuild hours - any 24hr race stretches this rebuild period to the maximum.
Driveability will involve horsepower, torque and power delivery characteristics. For example the Le Mans winning Audi R8 engine is quoted at 610bhp, 516lb ft.
Fuel efficiency is critical especially over the longer events.
Now you probably all knew all the above, but just in case you didn't....
06-10-2002, 06:57 PM
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Just to add to the above and attempt to remain on topic, the Japanese GT Championship is the only series that I am aware of the Supra and 911 both competing in.
<a href="http://www.jgtc.net/index_en.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jgtc.net/index_en.htm</a>
Critically, the two cars compete in different classes. The quoted estimated horsepower of the different categories are limited due to air restrictor imposition and all the reasons in the above posting.
No doubt the difference in classes entered between the two cars is one fundamentally of factory support and consequently development. It is my understanding, although I have no direct knowledge and I'm ready and prepared to be shot down in flames regarding this that the Supra was originally designed with the GT Championship in mind and has been raced continually since.
<a href="http://www.jgtc.net/index_en.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jgtc.net/index_en.htm</a>
Critically, the two cars compete in different classes. The quoted estimated horsepower of the different categories are limited due to air restrictor imposition and all the reasons in the above posting.
No doubt the difference in classes entered between the two cars is one fundamentally of factory support and consequently development. It is my understanding, although I have no direct knowledge and I'm ready and prepared to be shot down in flames regarding this that the Supra was originally designed with the GT Championship in mind and has been raced continually since.
06-10-2002, 07:15 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by styx:
<strong>Hi Guys,
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx</strong><hr></blockquote>
Styx, eat your own words...
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
You're wondering who I am-machine or mannequin
With parts made in Japan, I am the modren man
I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin
My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain I.B.M.
So if you see me acting strangely, don't be surprised I'm just a man who needed someone, and somewhere to hide To keep me alive-just keep me alive Somewhere to hide to keep me alive
I'm not a robot without emotions-I'm not what you see I've come to help you with your problems, so we can be free I'm not a hero, I'm not a saviour, forget what you know I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control
Beyond my control-we all need control
I need control-we all need control
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
<strong>Hi Guys,
the best way to tell how reliable a car is,
is in an endurance race. I do not see any asian cars in the GT or GTS class at Le Mans. All the magazine tests are irrelevant, because they are subjective. It all depends who is giving them the most money (ads.)
When i see a supra participating or winning the class in Le Mans or ALMS or, or, you name it, i consider to buy one. Until then, i stick with the best sportscar in the world.
The 911.
cu
styx</strong><hr></blockquote>
Styx, eat your own words...
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto,
You're wondering who I am-machine or mannequin
With parts made in Japan, I am the modren man
I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin
My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain I.B.M.
So if you see me acting strangely, don't be surprised I'm just a man who needed someone, and somewhere to hide To keep me alive-just keep me alive Somewhere to hide to keep me alive
I'm not a robot without emotions-I'm not what you see I've come to help you with your problems, so we can be free I'm not a hero, I'm not a saviour, forget what you know I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control
Beyond my control-we all need control
I need control-we all need control
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
06-11-2002, 10:11 PM
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it seems to me that you just comment postings from other people but your comments has nothing to do with cars.
If you know something that we do not know then please share this with us. If not then better ...............!
@ jeff C
The first Viper had BIG reliability problems. The latets vipers are the most reliable cars on the track. Yes they DO have restrictors otherwise the 800 Hp is the minimum HP that they have:-)
sinc etehy do not go any smaller with restrictors they ad more weight now. (about 100 kg more)
Today I saw the 24H again on the TV. if you compare how fast the Viper pull of teh Nissan (that has over 500 HP) and of the Gt3R with 460 HP, I guess the viper must had at least 550-600 HP. Even with much more weight it was like a Porsche turbo against a NA Porsche.
The biggest Problem that the japanesse cars have was the reliability. After some years they are reliable but the fuel efficiency is still a problem. Otherwise the Nissan was as fast as the fastest Porsche this year. So handling is not an isue
Konstantin
If you know something that we do not know then please share this with us. If not then better ...............!
@ jeff C
The first Viper had BIG reliability problems. The latets vipers are the most reliable cars on the track. Yes they DO have restrictors otherwise the 800 Hp is the minimum HP that they have:-)
sinc etehy do not go any smaller with restrictors they ad more weight now. (about 100 kg more)
Today I saw the 24H again on the TV. if you compare how fast the Viper pull of teh Nissan (that has over 500 HP) and of the Gt3R with 460 HP, I guess the viper must had at least 550-600 HP. Even with much more weight it was like a Porsche turbo against a NA Porsche.
The biggest Problem that the japanesse cars have was the reliability. After some years they are reliable but the fuel efficiency is still a problem. Otherwise the Nissan was as fast as the fastest Porsche this year. So handling is not an isue
Konstantin
06-12-2002, 05:02 AM
#57
[quote]Originally posted by Shank996TT:
<strong>A whole lot of spurious mouthbreathing ****. (I actually wrote that.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You seem like a real mouthbreather. You might do a little searching on this board for clues about Kon. He probably has forgotten more about high performance cars than you will ever be able to learn. You seem like a real canidate for the "I brag about the size of my cars to make up for the size of my dick Award."
And by the way, I would like to see some pictures of those cars. Sounds like you have a real sweet stable. Or with all that money burning a hole in your pocket and forcing you to order cars every day, can you not find time to break out your super-deluxe digital camera? Consolidating maybe?
You dismiss his comments simply because he doesnt speak English natively? How many languages do you speak, mouthbreather? I would bet you are barely literate in English.
Gonna cry now?
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
<strong>A whole lot of spurious mouthbreathing ****. (I actually wrote that.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You seem like a real mouthbreather. You might do a little searching on this board for clues about Kon. He probably has forgotten more about high performance cars than you will ever be able to learn. You seem like a real canidate for the "I brag about the size of my cars to make up for the size of my dick Award."
And by the way, I would like to see some pictures of those cars. Sounds like you have a real sweet stable. Or with all that money burning a hole in your pocket and forcing you to order cars every day, can you not find time to break out your super-deluxe digital camera? Consolidating maybe?
You dismiss his comments simply because he doesnt speak English natively? How many languages do you speak, mouthbreather? I would bet you are barely literate in English.
Gonna cry now?
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
06-12-2002, 07:58 AM
#58
Hey water - he is not worth the effort. If indeed he owns those cars, then obviously he is a typical trust fund New York area boy without even the emotional maturity to salute a German who has the ***** to trade exchanges with us in English.
English, by the way, is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn because of the insane exceptions.
English, by the way, is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn because of the insane exceptions.
06-12-2002, 09:06 AM
#59
Thats not my real problem with this wonder-boy. My real issue is him coming in here, dissing Konstantine, who has proved his technical competence time and time again. Not to mention the technical assistance he provides, the insights into actual PAG goings-on, the cool-*** pics he posts, the
Here comes this over-payed/over-funded/whatever/who-gives-a-****, white-bread frat boy with a couple of high-dollar cars, all telling it like it is. Like he is some kind of authority on anything.
What qualifications do you have Superman? What race teams have you been with? How many times have you been on a track?
Oh, thats right, you drag race. Do you do that before, or after, you watch wrestling?
Drag racing a Porsche is like making Baryshnikov country line dance; sure, he can do it, but what a horrible waste of talent.
Maybe instead of adding more HP, you should spend some money on the only performance part that matters: the driver. Get some driving skill, get some experience on a real track, with corners and everything. Get a clue. Surely you can afford a clue. Maybe you could order the 2003 model clue.
And dont think I have forgotten you, little lackey-boy. You know who you are. Go ahead, speak up. Dont be afraid. You sure were quick to jump on Shanks/***** tip when he started talking smack about how Konstantine had spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. Just like a toady. Why dont you give us an essay on humility? In French, since you are such a master of languages. Tool.
//edited for clarity of thought//
Here comes this over-payed/over-funded/whatever/who-gives-a-****, white-bread frat boy with a couple of high-dollar cars, all telling it like it is. Like he is some kind of authority on anything.
What qualifications do you have Superman? What race teams have you been with? How many times have you been on a track?
Oh, thats right, you drag race. Do you do that before, or after, you watch wrestling?
Drag racing a Porsche is like making Baryshnikov country line dance; sure, he can do it, but what a horrible waste of talent.
Maybe instead of adding more HP, you should spend some money on the only performance part that matters: the driver. Get some driving skill, get some experience on a real track, with corners and everything. Get a clue. Surely you can afford a clue. Maybe you could order the 2003 model clue.
And dont think I have forgotten you, little lackey-boy. You know who you are. Go ahead, speak up. Dont be afraid. You sure were quick to jump on Shanks/***** tip when he started talking smack about how Konstantine had spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. Just like a toady. Why dont you give us an essay on humility? In French, since you are such a master of languages. Tool.
//edited for clarity of thought//
06-12-2002, 09:29 AM
#60
[quote]Originally posted by Shank996TT:
<strong>
What is a "then that" and "beat say"?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Shanky
After you personally abused Konstantin on his grammar and calling him a chump, I childishly picked up on your 'conslustion' or whatever it was to show you that not everybody is perfect, not even you. Like Luke said above, you don't deserve respect. Contempt maybe, but not respect.
If you want to play on the spelling or grammar side, I can go through your posts and pick out another dozen mistakes made by you.
Let's get back to the discussion without further ado, and if you feel big enough today perhaps you could apologise to Konstantin for the 'chump' outburst which I think you will agree was childish and insulting.
Christer
<strong>
What is a "then that" and "beat say"?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Shanky
After you personally abused Konstantin on his grammar and calling him a chump, I childishly picked up on your 'conslustion' or whatever it was to show you that not everybody is perfect, not even you. Like Luke said above, you don't deserve respect. Contempt maybe, but not respect.
If you want to play on the spelling or grammar side, I can go through your posts and pick out another dozen mistakes made by you.
Let's get back to the discussion without further ado, and if you feel big enough today perhaps you could apologise to Konstantin for the 'chump' outburst which I think you will agree was childish and insulting.
Christer