Price for K16 Modified Turbos?
11-09-2005, 07:44 PM
#61
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jean,
I never claimed to "know" more than anyone else. I am not that arrogant. What I also don't do is kiss *** to other people. I feel that some on these forums mislead others for their own finacial gains. My positions and experances can be replicated simply. I have nothing to gain or loose by sharing my knowledge.
Yes I have driven a 993tt with Kevin's stage 2 turbos. They are very responsive. They do suffer on the top end thought.
As far as Kevin doing turbo work for me goes I chose not to use his services for two reasons. One is that he was unwilling to give me the specs of a stage 4 wheel. I know what I want and need the data to confirm I am getting what I pay for. The other reason is that I was able to find a VERY reputible turbo house that helped me select the best compresor for my application and provided maps to support the choice. Funny thing is they turned out to cost less than 1/2 of what kevin wanted to charge.
Lastly since you chose to ignor my findings. Lets look at other examples.
993TB spent big $$$ going from K24 hybrids to Kevins Stage 3 turbos. The stage3's did not even come close to the power levels that he had with the K24 based turbos.
Woodster spent $$$ on stage2's only to see his buddy in the same 993 with K24's pass him by time and time again.
You can belive what you like. My data and experances are solid.
Please reread my previous post and show me were I claimed K24's to be more reponsive than Hybrid K16's.
For those looking for the ULTIMATE turbo response you need to look to Garrett ball bearing turbos. They are sold by all of the BIG real tuners. I don't want to mention any names and cause problems but if you look at the last two 996 shootouts you will find your sources.
A fool and his money soon part. In life its buyer beware.
I never claimed to "know" more than anyone else. I am not that arrogant. What I also don't do is kiss *** to other people. I feel that some on these forums mislead others for their own finacial gains. My positions and experances can be replicated simply. I have nothing to gain or loose by sharing my knowledge.
Yes I have driven a 993tt with Kevin's stage 2 turbos. They are very responsive. They do suffer on the top end thought.
As far as Kevin doing turbo work for me goes I chose not to use his services for two reasons. One is that he was unwilling to give me the specs of a stage 4 wheel. I know what I want and need the data to confirm I am getting what I pay for. The other reason is that I was able to find a VERY reputible turbo house that helped me select the best compresor for my application and provided maps to support the choice. Funny thing is they turned out to cost less than 1/2 of what kevin wanted to charge.
Lastly since you chose to ignor my findings. Lets look at other examples.
993TB spent big $$$ going from K24 hybrids to Kevins Stage 3 turbos. The stage3's did not even come close to the power levels that he had with the K24 based turbos.
Woodster spent $$$ on stage2's only to see his buddy in the same 993 with K24's pass him by time and time again.
You can belive what you like. My data and experances are solid.
Please reread my previous post and show me were I claimed K24's to be more reponsive than Hybrid K16's.
For those looking for the ULTIMATE turbo response you need to look to Garrett ball bearing turbos. They are sold by all of the BIG real tuners. I don't want to mention any names and cause problems but if you look at the last two 996 shootouts you will find your sources.
A fool and his money soon part. In life its buyer beware.
11-09-2005, 08:18 PM
#62
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Again, It's not difficult to build large turbochargers, the difficulty comes in finding the correct match with programming and exhaust, intercoolers and so forth.
Take a look at this thread, Stage 2 turbochargers with my Stage 2 programming, in this case programming done for these turbochargers. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...%2F4+mile+time
If you look at this thread "Q" has posted his time with Hybrid K24's... (non-stock) you can see his reply "laggy"
What isn't mentioned with TB's project was that there wasn't any tuning done for the Stage 3's.. They were just bolted on and ran with K24RS programming. I think that there would have been significant gains if time was spent tuning those turbochargers.
Look there are other options for turbochargers, this thread was started with regards to K16's.. If someone wants to start a thread about Garrett Ball-bearing turbochargers, they will do so. Ruf, FVD, Cargraphic, Sportec, RS Tuning, and I've missed many others that don't use the ball-bearing units. Many have tried them, including myself.
Take a look at this thread, Stage 2 turbochargers with my Stage 2 programming, in this case programming done for these turbochargers. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...%2F4+mile+time
If you look at this thread "Q" has posted his time with Hybrid K24's... (non-stock) you can see his reply "laggy"
What isn't mentioned with TB's project was that there wasn't any tuning done for the Stage 3's.. They were just bolted on and ran with K24RS programming. I think that there would have been significant gains if time was spent tuning those turbochargers.
Look there are other options for turbochargers, this thread was started with regards to K16's.. If someone wants to start a thread about Garrett Ball-bearing turbochargers, they will do so. Ruf, FVD, Cargraphic, Sportec, RS Tuning, and I've missed many others that don't use the ball-bearing units. Many have tried them, including myself.
11-09-2005, 11:43 PM
#63
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys. So many people sent me PM's my box filled up. I have just cleared some space. I am happy to work with all of you to suggest the best combo based on what you want to achive. Believe it or not I may even suggest Kevins turbos based on your desires. I am only trying to help you guys see that K16's are NOT the anwser for everbody.
11-10-2005, 01:41 AM
#64
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW, my Turbo had Kevin's StageII ported/coated/billet-backed turbos. I've run a few K24's, and while I loose nothing on the top end, I consistantly spool faster. I've driven K24 turbos, including GT2, and trust me, the lag difference is evident; doesn't make the K24 slow, but spoolup difference is significant between K24 and K16 Hybrids.
Even though the K16 turbine wheels are 2mm smaller than the K24, the housing is 20% larger in A/R. So, the flow is actually faster than the K24 housing. Additionally, porting that was done matches the inlet dimensions of the K24s, but since the housing is tighter, the air is compressed more, resulting in higher velocity; that results in aggresive spoolup of K16 while better flow than K24. The flow is actually faster than the K24 housing. I can show you 1.2BAR of boost at 3k rpm... as well as at 7500 rpm redline!
Backpressure is relieved through the aforementioned porting. The folks that are running the Garretts and the ball-bearing units have an even tighter A/R and smaller T-wheel.
As for the compressor side, if you take the difference between the K16 to K24, and double it, that's about the size of my hybrid cold side. I also have the CNC Billet backplate, which provide stability for the sealing rings and thrust bearing and thrust stack. They are also ceramic coated, as are the ported headers.
The bottom line is, for street use, the K16 hybrids are superior than the K24... they spool faster, and can match the top end. That's my $.02. Of course, none of that matters if you don't have the matching programming... the Upsolue program will work for those on a budget, but Protomotive has a program that resulted in a huge mid-range torque swell.
Good luck with your turbo mods... most of all, have fun at it!
Even though the K16 turbine wheels are 2mm smaller than the K24, the housing is 20% larger in A/R. So, the flow is actually faster than the K24 housing. Additionally, porting that was done matches the inlet dimensions of the K24s, but since the housing is tighter, the air is compressed more, resulting in higher velocity; that results in aggresive spoolup of K16 while better flow than K24. The flow is actually faster than the K24 housing. I can show you 1.2BAR of boost at 3k rpm... as well as at 7500 rpm redline!
Backpressure is relieved through the aforementioned porting. The folks that are running the Garretts and the ball-bearing units have an even tighter A/R and smaller T-wheel.
As for the compressor side, if you take the difference between the K16 to K24, and double it, that's about the size of my hybrid cold side. I also have the CNC Billet backplate, which provide stability for the sealing rings and thrust bearing and thrust stack. They are also ceramic coated, as are the ported headers.
The bottom line is, for street use, the K16 hybrids are superior than the K24... they spool faster, and can match the top end. That's my $.02. Of course, none of that matters if you don't have the matching programming... the Upsolue program will work for those on a budget, but Protomotive has a program that resulted in a huge mid-range torque swell.
Good luck with your turbo mods... most of all, have fun at it!
11-10-2005, 05:00 AM
#65
I have a 996tt with Kevins stage5 turbos and SG ECU. piping, intercoolers, clutch,streight pipes, etc.. has been changed as well.
I had the FVD k-24 race turbos with stage3 and 4 program. It worked great for 25K miles. no problems. I ran 11.5sec @123 mph. But they were laggy... the spool up took long... I think this turbo is good for top end @1.1 bars. But from light to light, 1,2, and 3rd gears... not so good. I didnt hit full boost until 4rth gear.
Since then, I switched to kevins stage 5s.... what a difference. I hit 1.3 bars or higher if i want(boost controller installed).... in 1st gear.. and not 4th- like b4. There is no comparison. I also have his billet actuators which made a world of difference- which is what EVOMS and the likes are doing as well to their high end packages. Top end is great as well. It holds boost... and as a matter of fact.... i use the boost controller to turn down the boost- these turbos are pushing 1.6 bars or higher if i let them-i did but Im on stock internals... so I backed off and run comfortably 20 to 21 psi which about 1.4 bars sustained... this is awesome. I had the old k-24 setup dynoed and their was nothing after 5700K... and I knew that cause it wasnt pulling anymore. Boost would fall off and would not sustain- it would drop of on highway pulls from 1.2 to 1.1 bars... believe me guys that there is a difference.
When kevin meant zero clearance- he meant it.
No BS... no speculations... nor pics, maps, just real street facts.
markski
I had the FVD k-24 race turbos with stage3 and 4 program. It worked great for 25K miles. no problems. I ran 11.5sec @123 mph. But they were laggy... the spool up took long... I think this turbo is good for top end @1.1 bars. But from light to light, 1,2, and 3rd gears... not so good. I didnt hit full boost until 4rth gear.
Since then, I switched to kevins stage 5s.... what a difference. I hit 1.3 bars or higher if i want(boost controller installed).... in 1st gear.. and not 4th- like b4. There is no comparison. I also have his billet actuators which made a world of difference- which is what EVOMS and the likes are doing as well to their high end packages. Top end is great as well. It holds boost... and as a matter of fact.... i use the boost controller to turn down the boost- these turbos are pushing 1.6 bars or higher if i let them-i did but Im on stock internals... so I backed off and run comfortably 20 to 21 psi which about 1.4 bars sustained... this is awesome. I had the old k-24 setup dynoed and their was nothing after 5700K... and I knew that cause it wasnt pulling anymore. Boost would fall off and would not sustain- it would drop of on highway pulls from 1.2 to 1.1 bars... believe me guys that there is a difference.
When kevin meant zero clearance- he meant it.
No BS... no speculations... nor pics, maps, just real street facts.
markski
Last edited by markski; 11-10-2005 at 06:30 AM.
11-10-2005, 05:28 AM
#66
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oceania
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Markski and Stephen Ti,
besides the turbos can you say what your other engine mods are. Have you dynoed and if so what numbers were achieved?.What did the graph look like.?
besides the turbos can you say what your other engine mods are. Have you dynoed and if so what numbers were achieved?.What did the graph look like.?
11-10-2005, 05:31 AM
#67
Originally Posted by Red9
Markski and Stehan Ti,
besides the turbos can you say what your other engine mods are. Have you dynoed and if so what numbers were achieved?.What did the graph look like.?
besides the turbos can you say what your other engine mods are. Have you dynoed and if so what numbers were achieved?.What did the graph look like.?
streight pipes, evoms hoses, gt2 intercoolers, dvs, 5 bar fuel pressure regulator, stage2 sach clutch with flywheel. 100 octane program via port. boost controller- manual and electronic- dont ask why(dont ask why for now).... eugo AFR guage and a manual boost guage in PSI. I also have the throttle body shut down disabled. so I can boost beyond the dreaded 1.3 bars- But Im very carefull with that. thrust me that this car turns into a different animal at 1.3 bars or higher.
I still have yet to dyno and 1/4 track this set up.
11-10-2005, 06:32 AM
#68
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Tom
90% of us who post here have nothing to sell, don't know these sponsors and tuners personally and definitely don't kiss a$$. Many of us as well have been driving trolls and false claims away from this board for sometime now before you joined, I appreciate your concerns for people in spending their money wisely, but please try not to sound pretentious while you are doing it..
If you discovered a low cost mod/high performance and you don't benefit from it, please share publicly, share your "knowledge" with us, and let us give you our opinion, and thank you publicly for it too, why not. It sounds like Rennlisters have gone crazy sending you PMs, make it easier for everyone. I hope it is not the intake flap mod.
I will stop being cynical now (in a nice way ), and get down to business. What you are saying about the K16 hybrids pulling strond downlow and run out of some steam at high RPMs has already been established earlier. You mentioned TB, but you misstated the conclusion:
This is what TB posted as a conclusion based on the data given to him by RS Tuning..
With that being said, the trap speed of Acropora on a simple stage 2, my experiences with my FVD engine (cams, K24/26 race turbos, mapped ECU etc..), with my experiences with the Stage 2ZC and stage 5 ZC of Kevin on a 996TT, with the experiences of all the guys here posting, if you still want to maintain that I choose to ignore your findings? What were they Tom? The charts that you posted on a Mustang https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=230177&page=3 and that were quickly explained by Kevin, until you brought up the lipstick and heels??
I think the K16stage 2 ZC value has been more than proven for a street car and if you need a track setup, there are other stages, whoever does not want to believe it is free to do so, but let us make sure the builder is not accused subtly of being dishonest, now that you bring also the price issue to the table!
And I don't run KKK turbos, I run Garretts, I think they are great, just as Kevin's hybrids are amazing and will most certainly last much longer than my Garretts.
90% of us who post here have nothing to sell, don't know these sponsors and tuners personally and definitely don't kiss a$$. Many of us as well have been driving trolls and false claims away from this board for sometime now before you joined, I appreciate your concerns for people in spending their money wisely, but please try not to sound pretentious while you are doing it..
If you discovered a low cost mod/high performance and you don't benefit from it, please share publicly, share your "knowledge" with us, and let us give you our opinion, and thank you publicly for it too, why not. It sounds like Rennlisters have gone crazy sending you PMs, make it easier for everyone. I hope it is not the intake flap mod.
I will stop being cynical now (in a nice way
), and get down to business. What you are saying about the K16 hybrids pulling strond downlow and run out of some steam at high RPMs has already been established earlier. You mentioned TB, but you misstated the conclusion:This is what TB posted as a conclusion based on the data given to him by RS Tuning..
Originally Posted by TB993tt
The dyno sheet shows my engine with K24RS turbos THESE ARE NOT K24 TURBOS, they are a lot different, for a start the compressor wheel is much bigger than a K24. It would be like Kevin calling his stage 3s - K16ZC. So you can not expect a K24 to give you the sort of power that the K24RS does. .....
.....I know that if I had let RS write a program for the stage 3s, the motor would have been VERY potent and with 510PS @5500rpm would have ripped to 100mph in the mid 7 seconds.
In a nutshell K24 (stock) - BAD / K16 HYBRID - GOOD
.....I know that if I had let RS write a program for the stage 3s, the motor would have been VERY potent and with 510PS @5500rpm would have ripped to 100mph in the mid 7 seconds.
In a nutshell K24 (stock) - BAD / K16 HYBRID - GOOD
I think the K16stage 2 ZC value has been more than proven for a street car and if you need a track setup, there are other stages, whoever does not want to believe it is free to do so, but let us make sure the builder is not accused subtly of being dishonest, now that you bring also the price issue to the table!
And I don't run KKK turbos, I run Garretts, I think they are great, just as Kevin's hybrids are amazing and will most certainly last much longer than my Garretts.
Last edited by Jean; 11-10-2005 at 07:00 AM.
11-10-2005, 12:14 PM
#69
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jean,
As the some of you folks continue to muddy the waters I will simpy explain my point.
If you want BIG top end power and are willing to live with a 500 RPM higher boost threashold start with K24's. If you are more concerned about how quickly the turbo come on then stick with K16's.
The same compressor wheels can be used in both.
Kevin continues to market his turbos as the answer for everybodys needs. That is simply not the case. There have been many who have been disapointed. There have been many who have been satisfied.
I try to help people define there goals and point them in the proper direction before spending there money so they don't have to do it twice.
There was a reason that RS tuning did not waste the time to fine tune the program for TB's car. They must have felt that the programing was close enough to determin that no amount of tuning would recover the lost HP from going to Kevins stage3 turbos.
It is foolish to establish conclusions when entering other varibles. The true test (like TB's car) is to keep all other varibles the same.
As for your Garretts. I have a friend that has 50k plus on his Ball Bearing Garretts without a problem. This is a 993tt.
I do suggest those interested read through the entire thread you posted the link to. Kevin did nothing to explain away AWE's and my findings. He only accused them of not using pump fuel in the after compairision.
As the some of you folks continue to muddy the waters I will simpy explain my point.
If you want BIG top end power and are willing to live with a 500 RPM higher boost threashold start with K24's. If you are more concerned about how quickly the turbo come on then stick with K16's.
The same compressor wheels can be used in both.
Kevin continues to market his turbos as the answer for everybodys needs. That is simply not the case. There have been many who have been disapointed. There have been many who have been satisfied.
I try to help people define there goals and point them in the proper direction before spending there money so they don't have to do it twice.
There was a reason that RS tuning did not waste the time to fine tune the program for TB's car. They must have felt that the programing was close enough to determin that no amount of tuning would recover the lost HP from going to Kevins stage3 turbos.
It is foolish to establish conclusions when entering other varibles. The true test (like TB's car) is to keep all other varibles the same.
As for your Garretts. I have a friend that has 50k plus on his Ball Bearing Garretts without a problem. This is a 993tt.
I do suggest those interested read through the entire thread you posted the link to. Kevin did nothing to explain away AWE's and my findings. He only accused them of not using pump fuel in the after compairision.
11-10-2005, 01:10 PM
#70
Originally Posted by K24madness
It is foolish to establish conclusions when entering other varibles. The true test (like TB's car) is to keep all other varibles the same.
I can not resist...this is absolutely incorrect. One factor at a time testing is the most inefficient method of testing multi-variables. It can not be used to understand interactions of factors which I think is probably quite likely in the systems we are talking about. You need a statistician to show you the proper way...factorial designs!...SORRY!
11-10-2005, 01:35 PM
#71
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
K24 Madness (as your name implies hehe), I had to respectfully disagree on some points here... First of all no matter how good your software is you will still have lag going to bigger turbos, namely on the exhaust side. It's just plain physics as I'm sure you'll agree. You can reduce lag but the starting point is higher as you go with bigger turbos. I've had 6 different Turbo packadges on my car and whilst some of the larger ones have more up top, they always take longer to get there. In fact, I ran an 11.1 with the ZC Stage Vs and then a 10.97 with some K24 hot side's instead. Very close but my 0-60 was faster with the smaller guys. Craig's car had the Stage V's and with custom programing from GIAC was exceptionally fast also. You can make top end power and then take advantage of the lesser lag so that the larger turbo cars are always playing catch up. Sure.. by 140mph the larger guys are going to start pulling on the smaller turbo cars but at that point does it matter? I enjoy the way my car is with the larger turbos but it's certainly got lag, even with Garrett's genius.
11-10-2005, 01:44 PM
#72
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sharkster,
Never said less lag on K24's vs K16's. I have made it clear that boost threshold is pushed up 500RPM's. What I did say is if you improve the backpressure of the exhaust at the same time you change to K24 based turbos your spoolup would be similar to stock.
It is the delta between exhaust backpressure and TIP that spools the turbos.
Stock backpressure is approx 10 psi
Good exhaust system is 1-3 PSI
When you consider that TIP is approx 29 PSI the delta between stock exhaust is 19 PSI and good aftermarket exhaust is 27-29 PSI. This extra pressure helps make up for the larger turbine and AR of the K24's
These numbers are real close but not exact. I have measure stock 996 exhausts and got between 10-12 PSI. Stephen (imagine auto) has claimed 1 PSI on the FABSPEED exhaust.
PS Great runs on your car!!!
Never said less lag on K24's vs K16's. I have made it clear that boost threshold is pushed up 500RPM's. What I did say is if you improve the backpressure of the exhaust at the same time you change to K24 based turbos your spoolup would be similar to stock.
It is the delta between exhaust backpressure and TIP that spools the turbos.
Stock backpressure is approx 10 psi
Good exhaust system is 1-3 PSI
When you consider that TIP is approx 29 PSI the delta between stock exhaust is 19 PSI and good aftermarket exhaust is 27-29 PSI. This extra pressure helps make up for the larger turbine and AR of the K24's
These numbers are real close but not exact. I have measure stock 996 exhausts and got between 10-12 PSI. Stephen (imagine auto) has claimed 1 PSI on the FABSPEED exhaust.
PS Great runs on your car!!!
11-10-2005, 01:48 PM
#73
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wross996tt
This has nothing to do with the thread, so I appologize in advance, but..
I can not resist...this is absolutely incorrect. One factor at a time testing is the most inefficient method of testing multi-variables. It can not be used to understand interactions of factors which I think is probably quite likely in the systems we are talking about. You need a statistician to show you the proper way...factorial designs!...SORRY!
I can not resist...this is absolutely incorrect. One factor at a time testing is the most inefficient method of testing multi-variables. It can not be used to understand interactions of factors which I think is probably quite likely in the systems we are talking about. You need a statistician to show you the proper way...factorial designs!...SORRY!
In this example of Hybrid K16's vs Hybrid K24's it is a proper compairsion.
11-10-2005, 01:48 PM
#74
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by wross996tt
This has nothing to do with the thread, so I appologize in advance, but..
I can not resist...this is absolutely incorrect. One factor at a time testing is the most inefficient method of testing multi-variables. It can not be used to understand interactions of factors which I think is probably quite likely in the systems we are talking about. You need a statistician to show you the proper way...factorial designs!...SORRY!
I can not resist...this is absolutely incorrect. One factor at a time testing is the most inefficient method of testing multi-variables. It can not be used to understand interactions of factors which I think is probably quite likely in the systems we are talking about. You need a statistician to show you the proper way...factorial designs!...SORRY!
Madness is right and wrong about the Stage 3s, right because they had very little lag but, although they would still produce the boost, the boosted air was too hot (please take note those who are seeing 1.2+bar @6500rpm from a K16 based turbo
) and limited the power which could be made. wrong because they were being compared to the K24RSs which bear little resemblance to stock K24s.I do not know how Madness claims so much knowledge about Porsche tts, but recent claims of Flywheel hp begining with a 6 calls any knowledge into question IMO. Like Jean I would love to see some what you have done, components, boost levels, intake temps, 60-130 times - even chassis dynos are worth a laugh
You may not like the debate which will follow (like 950hp Craig who seems to have return to his natural habitat) but it is all good for knowledge.Kevin on the other hand has seen Motronic 5.2 in action and its interaction with his turbos and watched one of the VERY few who can work this system do his thing, he has watched in real time the Motronic pulling timing in a split second when the intake charge gets over a certain temp - I don't think he has any illusions about how hard it is to make real power.
11-10-2005, 02:22 PM
#75
Banned
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: California, Bay Area
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB
I will get you some 60-130 numbers for you soon.
I use the chassis dyno for tuning and to varify my changes are going it the rite direction. Although the numbers are high I don't dare expect to be able to extract true flywheel HP figures. All of my changes have been in the rite direction. Fueling and tuning looks good. After I make all of the changes I plan to make you will have your performance standard (60-130) on video.
Protomotive, SCARGO and many others have helped me along in this journey. These guys are amoung the best in the industry. European car magazine shootout Protomotive took 1st place. Excellance magazine shootout SCARGO took 2nd.
I get by with a little help from my friends.
I will get you some 60-130 numbers for you soon.
I use the chassis dyno for tuning and to varify my changes are going it the rite direction. Although the numbers are high I don't dare expect to be able to extract true flywheel HP figures. All of my changes have been in the rite direction. Fueling and tuning looks good. After I make all of the changes I plan to make you will have your performance standard (60-130) on video.
Protomotive, SCARGO and many others have helped me along in this journey. These guys are amoung the best in the industry. European car magazine shootout Protomotive took 1st place. Excellance magazine shootout SCARGO took 2nd.
I get by with a little help from my friends.