Price for K16 Modified Turbos?
11-08-2005, 11:08 PM
#47
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ok, lets try this again then...
C) is the K16/ K24 , im trying to base that off the turbine fin structure and spacing, and to me looks like the smallest turbine of the bunch..and most resembles the X50/GT2
that will then make
A) the K26
and
B) the K27 which to me like the largest outputter of the bunch
C) is the K16/ K24 , im trying to base that off the turbine fin structure and spacing, and to me looks like the smallest turbine of the bunch..and most resembles the X50/GT2
that will then make
A) the K26
and
B) the K27 which to me like the largest outputter of the bunch
11-09-2005, 01:25 PM
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Hmmm...Newbie here 
(though not new to Turbo cars)
C looks like the fin arrangement on a K26 to me, A with the physically larger wheel is the K27 and the K16k/24 hybrid is B.
(though not new to Turbo cars)C looks like the fin arrangement on a K26 to me, A with the physically larger wheel is the K27 and the K16k/24 hybrid is B.
11-09-2005, 03:10 PM
#54
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Why not look at all available compressor wheels. Mitsubshi, Garrett, KKK Etc.
Appearances can be deceving. You must go by the flow maps. That is the ONLY way to select the proper compressor. You must then decied which frame you want to use. The ones that are "bolt" on are the K16's and K24's. The same compressor wheel will behave the same way in each housing. The main difference will be the "boost threshold" and top end power differences due to the frame used. Read my above thread.
The term "lag" is not really correct for the onset of boost under WOT. They are two seperate things. I suggest that those that really want to learn about this stuff read the many different books available. If you make well informed choices you will never be disapointed with the results. Also consider the source of the information and how it affects them. Remember people I don't sell anything. I just try to pass on facts and knowledge to help you guys make the proper choices.
Tom
Appearances can be deceving. You must go by the flow maps. That is the ONLY way to select the proper compressor. You must then decied which frame you want to use. The ones that are "bolt" on are the K16's and K24's. The same compressor wheel will behave the same way in each housing. The main difference will be the "boost threshold" and top end power differences due to the frame used. Read my above thread.
The term "lag" is not really correct for the onset of boost under WOT. They are two seperate things. I suggest that those that really want to learn about this stuff read the many different books available. If you make well informed choices you will never be disapointed with the results. Also consider the source of the information and how it affects them. Remember people I don't sell anything. I just try to pass on facts and knowledge to help you guys make the proper choices.
Tom
11-09-2005, 03:50 PM
#55
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Maps aren't everything, they are a guide, they will point you in the right direction. However, many turbochargers have been built with good engineering, but have failed when ran on an engine. Each engine is different, the 930 CIS engine behaves differently than the 4 valve 996TT engine. In the end the tuner must make the selection and build the turbocharger and install it.. Many times one has to go back to the drawing board.
Red9 is correct with the compressor wheel selection.
A is a K27 the smallest inducer in the group.
B is the K16-24 and sports the largest inducer, it also has a peak 80.5% efficiency
C is the K26, is a tad larger than the K27 but it also has the lowest efficiency of the bunch.
Red9 is correct with the compressor wheel selection.
A is a K27 the smallest inducer in the group.
B is the K16-24 and sports the largest inducer, it also has a peak 80.5% efficiency
C is the K26, is a tad larger than the K27 but it also has the lowest efficiency of the bunch.
11-09-2005, 05:25 PM
#56
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Tom,
It is not my party here, but if it helps, I have owned, seen and driven a full fledge 540 hp FVD (your reference) engine, and I can tell you that it has substantially more lag than the stage 2 ZC that I have also driven. If you are saying that the K16 hybrids don't have less lag than the K24s, you are wrong (not "IMO" ), have you driven any properly tuned K16 ZC hybrid car?
You cannot possibly pretend that you know more about turbochargers than Kevin?
This comment can be perceived as critical of Kevin's information provided or his products. If I recall correctly, you badly wanted Kevin to build a set of K24 hybrids for you and he declined, why would you now imply that he is not objective in the information he provides? ?
I owe Kevin nothing, and he owes me nothing, I don't care whether his turbos are better than others as I do not even have them, but if there is one sponsor on this board that has been under relentless scrutiny, then that must be him, and he has always been open to have his products tested and results shared in private with the people he likes, or he does not dislike rather.
We are on the same side here Tom, we only want to talk turbos, while keeping information accurate and giving credit where we should.
Cheers
It is not my party here, but if it helps, I have owned, seen and driven a full fledge 540 hp FVD (your reference) engine, and I can tell you that it has substantially more lag than the stage 2 ZC that I have also driven. If you are saying that the K16 hybrids don't have less lag than the K24s, you are wrong (not "IMO"
), have you driven any properly tuned K16 ZC hybrid car?
Originally Posted by K24madness
Also consider the source of the information and how it affects them. Remember people I don't sell anything. I just try to pass on facts and knowledge to help you guys make the proper choices.
Tom
Tom
You cannot possibly pretend that you know more about turbochargers than Kevin?This comment can be perceived as critical of Kevin's information provided or his products. If I recall correctly, you badly wanted Kevin to build a set of K24 hybrids for you and he declined, why would you now imply that he is not objective in the information he provides? ?
I owe Kevin nothing, and he owes me nothing, I don't care whether his turbos are better than others as I do not even have them, but if there is one sponsor on this board that has been under relentless scrutiny, then that must be him, and he has always been open to have his products tested and results shared in private with the people he likes, or he does not dislike rather.
We are on the same side here Tom, we only want to talk turbos, while keeping information accurate and giving credit where we should.
Cheers
11-09-2005, 06:04 PM
#57
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Jean, Kevin's products are first rate (and also not totally infallible either).
Kevin is an absolute expert, no doubt about that.
Tom is very, very knowledgable guy (self taught) and UNBIASED (does not sell anything to
anybody relating to Porsches)! It is very easy for Kevin (who's knowledge I respect) to talk
circles around 99% of us.
However, he will not "spin" anything over and around Tom. I agree with Oak,
and Tom on " Lag" as pertaining to 996Turbos and K-24's is almost nonexistent and irrelevent to
me because the motor is so "torquey" anyway with its variocam, etc. It is some much less lag as compared to my 930, my 91 C2 turbo, and my 993Twin
Turbo with Kevin's stage 2 ZC, ect. turbos on it!. It is like saying the new Viper just does not
put down the power like the new Corvette (11.8 vs 12.1 quarter mile)...
All of this discussion benefits all of us, and I always enjoy and do not necessarily agree with the board sponsors and also, like you am willing to
say something about it. Tom has a low cost, high performance solution for those who want to call him, he makes nothing from it.
Kevin is an absolute expert, no doubt about that.
Tom is very, very knowledgable guy (self taught) and UNBIASED (does not sell anything to
anybody relating to Porsches)! It is very easy for Kevin (who's knowledge I respect) to talk
circles around 99% of us.
However, he will not "spin" anything over and around Tom. I agree with Oak,and Tom on " Lag" as pertaining to 996Turbos and K-24's is almost nonexistent and irrelevent to
me because the motor is so "torquey" anyway with its variocam, etc. It is some much less lag as compared to my 930, my 91 C2 turbo, and my 993Twin
Turbo with Kevin's stage 2 ZC, ect. turbos on it!. It is like saying the new Viper just does not
put down the power like the new Corvette (11.8 vs 12.1 quarter mile)...
All of this discussion benefits all of us, and I always enjoy and do not necessarily agree with the board sponsors and also, like you am willing to
say something about it. Tom has a low cost, high performance solution for those who want to call him, he makes nothing from it.
11-09-2005, 06:33 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Woodster
" Lag" as pertaining to 996Turbos and K-24's is almost nonexistent .
I can tell you from my Corvette ownership that the stock 996TT DOES have significant lag, from a standing start, and other times as well. Its a PITA at times.
11-09-2005, 06:46 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Shark
Marty,
I can tell you from my Corvette ownership that the stock 996TT DOES have significant lag, from a standing start, and other times as well. Its a PITA at times.
I can tell you from my Corvette ownership that the stock 996TT DOES have significant lag, from a standing start, and other times as well. Its a PITA at times.
Although I like my Turbo *far* better than the Vette and the FI Mustangs, those cars will jump *right now* on throttle application - something a Turbo in stock form will not do because of it's turbo lag.
