Why Jack Baruth should be fired from R&T
06-07-2017 | 11:44 AM
#46
Advanced
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, NY
I just picked up my 996 a few months ago. So, I'm not sure if it has been garaged consistently or not. And the funny thing is... the fading is just on the roof. The hood and fenders look almost new. I'm going to try to polish it out soon, but I'm not expecting much.
06-07-2017 | 12:38 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 491
Likes: 8
From: a little south of Nashville
"At best, you’ll have same kind of kitschy appeal that you’d have with a 1977 Monte Carlo—but you can get parts for a 1977 Monte Carlo for pennies on the dollar at a junkyard."....
Dude obviously hasn't been to a junkyard anytime in the last decade (or two).
All said, with Porsches I went from an '86 930 to a '96 993, to my '99 996, with several other 944s etc along the way. The 996 is my favorite car to drive regularly of all these, for lots of reasons. If it wasn't, I'd go get something else. Financial investment/speculation is a non issue when I'm driving, I have many other classic cars for that.
Dude obviously hasn't been to a junkyard anytime in the last decade (or two).
All said, with Porsches I went from an '86 930 to a '96 993, to my '99 996, with several other 944s etc along the way. The 996 is my favorite car to drive regularly of all these, for lots of reasons. If it wasn't, I'd go get something else. Financial investment/speculation is a non issue when I'm driving, I have many other classic cars for that.
06-07-2017 | 12:52 PM
#48
Racer
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 262
Likes: 2
From: RTP, NC
Investment in a car... that's a serious topic and I would venture to say very few make sense.
That out of the way. The reason I picked 996 is solely because I want N/A engine with least amount of nanny tech from more modern cars. I also tried E46. As a 'Driver's car' which definition is different from everyone, but if you want to be connected to the road and actually drive a car, there isn't many of them left. New Miata is probably the best execution of modern cars. Will the 996 price goes up like the air cooled ones? I don't really care but that's not why I buy the car or any car for that matter. The inventory of 996/997.1 almost don't really matter because a car like these are only going to be reducing in inventory. Like the aircooled ones, no cars will be built like that anymore can also be said of the 996/997.
With the introduction of Turbo 4, it probably drive more enthusiasts and purist to take a second look at these. That in my opinion is the reason why so many video, article and blogs are taking an interest in the 996/997.
That out of the way. The reason I picked 996 is solely because I want N/A engine with least amount of nanny tech from more modern cars. I also tried E46. As a 'Driver's car' which definition is different from everyone, but if you want to be connected to the road and actually drive a car, there isn't many of them left. New Miata is probably the best execution of modern cars. Will the 996 price goes up like the air cooled ones? I don't really care but that's not why I buy the car or any car for that matter. The inventory of 996/997.1 almost don't really matter because a car like these are only going to be reducing in inventory. Like the aircooled ones, no cars will be built like that anymore can also be said of the 996/997.
With the introduction of Turbo 4, it probably drive more enthusiasts and purist to take a second look at these. That in my opinion is the reason why so many video, article and blogs are taking an interest in the 996/997.
06-07-2017 | 12:55 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 203
Likes: 15
Here's a counterpoint: ... I have NO interest in selling my 996 and using the proceeds to help buy the 993. Sure, I've never considered it before, but at the point he's willing to sell his car at a $10K+ markdown to me, it's enjoyable to realize that I wouldn't dump my 996 to fund the purchase of a "better" 911.
06-07-2017 | 01:11 PM
#50
Cruisin'
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Are we sure that just getting the guy fired is enough?
I mean --- holy sh*t, he wrote something you don't like!
Where would we be as a society if we just FIRED people for doing something that some rando on the Internet didn't like? Shouldn't the consequences for upsetting somebody be more serious than just LOSING YOUR JOB? At the VERY LEAST he should have his arms broken so he can't hurt any more feelings. Plus, I hear this Baruth guy has a family. How about we find his kid and beat him up a bit? Oh, the hell with it --- let's just erase him to the third generation the way they'd have done it two thousand years ago!
Anyway... I wrote this article to counteract a rash of ridiculous, if not irresponsible publications out there that are now advising people to buy a 996 based on the low cost of acquisition. We've done it ourselves at R&T, actually --- we gave a platform to some tubby moron who basically told the readers that a $15k 996 was a reasonable alternative to a $15k sport compact. If you've ever actually owned a Porsche as your daily driver, you know that the costs and problems don't align between ANY 911 and a Japanese hatchback.
If you read the whole article and can understand it but you still disagree, then thanks for reading and I'm sorry to have upset you.
If you want to read a differing perspective on watercooled cars, written by the same jerk that you want to have fired, here you go:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...d-love-affair/
I mean --- holy sh*t, he wrote something you don't like!
Where would we be as a society if we just FIRED people for doing something that some rando on the Internet didn't like? Shouldn't the consequences for upsetting somebody be more serious than just LOSING YOUR JOB? At the VERY LEAST he should have his arms broken so he can't hurt any more feelings. Plus, I hear this Baruth guy has a family. How about we find his kid and beat him up a bit? Oh, the hell with it --- let's just erase him to the third generation the way they'd have done it two thousand years ago!
Anyway... I wrote this article to counteract a rash of ridiculous, if not irresponsible publications out there that are now advising people to buy a 996 based on the low cost of acquisition. We've done it ourselves at R&T, actually --- we gave a platform to some tubby moron who basically told the readers that a $15k 996 was a reasonable alternative to a $15k sport compact. If you've ever actually owned a Porsche as your daily driver, you know that the costs and problems don't align between ANY 911 and a Japanese hatchback.
If you read the whole article and can understand it but you still disagree, then thanks for reading and I'm sorry to have upset you.
If you want to read a differing perspective on watercooled cars, written by the same jerk that you want to have fired, here you go:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...d-love-affair/
. Calling to derail your career & openly insulting you seems to be abusive & childish. There is a lot of merit to pushing back on those that suggest 911 ownership as a substitute for less expensive & more reliable cars. It may be 1/3rd the price or less of a Nissan GTR, but ownership is decidedly more expensive.Thanks for keeping the community entertained. In the end, buyer interest is just a function of total exposure and those willing to pony up the funds.
06-07-2017 | 01:13 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
Likes: 20
Yes there are problems with it, but there are potentially catastrophic problems with every 911 model ever made. There are also solutions and mitigations for the main problems, just like for all the 911s before it.
You also mentioned the production numbers, but fail to point out that we only hear about a small fraction of them and typically only when there are issues. Last I checked, however, few if any car forums are awash with "another day of the car working flawlessly" threads.
Finally in your similarly over the top whinny response here you try to spin it as doing a service to uneducated buyers. Yet your article does nothing to actually educate the reader as to the real rate of problems and what/how to look for signs of problems.
I think your article is drivel, but I congratulate you for generating clicks and discussion. That was your real goal and you (unfortunately in my opinion) succeeded.
For the record we have had our 01 since we ordered it and it's simple/cheap upkeep was the deciding factor in going with my Cayenne over an X5. The 996's repair bills have increased in the last few years, but it has also seen much less usage over that time too. The years that it was a DD the worst it saw was the odd failed window regulator or stuck fuel float. Oh the horror!!!!
06-07-2017 | 01:26 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,782
Likes: 8
Are we sure that just getting the guy fired is enough?
I mean --- holy sh*t, he wrote something you don't like!
Where would we be as a society if we just FIRED people for doing something that some rando on the Internet didn't like? Shouldn't the consequences for upsetting somebody be more serious than just LOSING YOUR JOB? At the VERY LEAST he should have his arms broken so he can't hurt any more feelings. Plus, I hear this Baruth guy has a family. How about we find his kid and beat him up a bit? Oh, the hell with it --- let's just erase him to the third generation the way they'd have done it two thousand years ago!
Anyway... I wrote this article to counteract a rash of ridiculous, if not irresponsible, publications out there that are now advising people to buy a 996 based on the low cost of acquisition. We've done it ourselves at R&T, actually --- we gave a platform to some tubby moron who basically told the readers that a $15k 996 was a reasonable alternative to a $15k sport compact. If you've ever actually owned a Porsche as your daily driver, you know that the costs and problems don't align between ANY 911 and a Japanese hatchback.
If you read the whole article and can understand it but you still disagree, then thanks for reading and I'm sorry to have upset you.
If you want to read a differing perspective on watercooled cars, written by the same jerk that you want to have fired, here you go:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...d-love-affair/
I mean --- holy sh*t, he wrote something you don't like!
Where would we be as a society if we just FIRED people for doing something that some rando on the Internet didn't like? Shouldn't the consequences for upsetting somebody be more serious than just LOSING YOUR JOB? At the VERY LEAST he should have his arms broken so he can't hurt any more feelings. Plus, I hear this Baruth guy has a family. How about we find his kid and beat him up a bit? Oh, the hell with it --- let's just erase him to the third generation the way they'd have done it two thousand years ago!
Anyway... I wrote this article to counteract a rash of ridiculous, if not irresponsible, publications out there that are now advising people to buy a 996 based on the low cost of acquisition. We've done it ourselves at R&T, actually --- we gave a platform to some tubby moron who basically told the readers that a $15k 996 was a reasonable alternative to a $15k sport compact. If you've ever actually owned a Porsche as your daily driver, you know that the costs and problems don't align between ANY 911 and a Japanese hatchback.
If you read the whole article and can understand it but you still disagree, then thanks for reading and I'm sorry to have upset you.
If you want to read a differing perspective on watercooled cars, written by the same jerk that you want to have fired, here you go:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...d-love-affair/
06-07-2017 | 02:11 PM
#53
Pro
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
From: SF Bay Area
I say keep the hate coming and keep the prices low. Fantastic driver, most affordable 911, and arguably the most likely to suffer catastrophic failure. And when the car blows, it's nice to know I can go and pick one up for the less than a new Civic. I have to care about what old white guys say at work, I prefer not to do it in my free time.
Last edited by mrjonger; 06-07-2017 at 08:44 PM.
06-07-2017 | 02:37 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,983
Likes: 148
From: Montana
It's funny you mention this. I am a recent C4S owner who just made the car perfect to how he wants it, if market values were completely taken out of the equation I would have NO interest what-so-ever in owning a 993 instead of my 996. Would I love to own one because it's a classic porsche, sure. Would I love to drive one just because, yeah definitely. DO I think they are better in any way over myy 4s coupe? Nope. I don't even think the 993 is particularly good looking.
06-07-2017 | 02:44 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,983
Likes: 148
From: Montana
You overhype issues, whine about the headlights, and moan about how no one listened to you about the 914.
Yes there are problems with it, but there are potentially catastrophic problems with every 911 model ever made. There are also solutions and mitigations for the main problems, just like for all the 911s before it.
You also mentioned the production numbers, but fail to point out that we only hear about a small fraction of them and typically only when there are issues. Last I checked, however, few if any car forums are awash with "another day of the car working flawlessly" threads.
Finally in your similarly over the top whinny response here you try to spin it as doing a service to uneducated buyers. Yet your article does nothing to actually educate the reader as to the real rate of problems and what/how to look for signs of problems.
I think your article is drivel, but I congratulate you for generating clicks and discussion. That was your real goal and you (unfortunately in my opinion) succeeded.
For the record we have had our 01 since we ordered it and it's simple/cheap upkeep was the deciding factor in going with my Cayenne over an X5. The 996's repair bills have increased in the last few years, but it has also seen much less usage over that time too. The years that it was a DD the worst it saw was the odd failed window regulator or stuck fuel float. Oh the horror!!!!
Yes there are problems with it, but there are potentially catastrophic problems with every 911 model ever made. There are also solutions and mitigations for the main problems, just like for all the 911s before it.
You also mentioned the production numbers, but fail to point out that we only hear about a small fraction of them and typically only when there are issues. Last I checked, however, few if any car forums are awash with "another day of the car working flawlessly" threads.
Finally in your similarly over the top whinny response here you try to spin it as doing a service to uneducated buyers. Yet your article does nothing to actually educate the reader as to the real rate of problems and what/how to look for signs of problems.
I think your article is drivel, but I congratulate you for generating clicks and discussion. That was your real goal and you (unfortunately in my opinion) succeeded.
For the record we have had our 01 since we ordered it and it's simple/cheap upkeep was the deciding factor in going with my Cayenne over an X5. The 996's repair bills have increased in the last few years, but it has also seen much less usage over that time too. The years that it was a DD the worst it saw was the odd failed window regulator or stuck fuel float. Oh the horror!!!!
I contemplated a 996 and even at current prices I didn't want to deal with the hassle of worrying about a bad engine. With a properly installed fix, I'd have been less worried but those are hard to find and even harder to verify. Was it done properly? Was it done before the engine took any IMS related damage? Would I still have to deal with bore scoring or d-chunking? There are a few engines out there (e.g. Raby engines) that seem truly worry free, but most are a question mark.
I understand all the happy 996 drivers and I empathize with those who have bought and been burned. Knowing my personality I'd have a hard time being the former because I'd always be worried about turning into the latter.
06-07-2017 | 02:47 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,657
Likes: 321
From: Hollywood, Florida
Baruth is a 996-hating schmuck. His 914 comments cemented that theory.
Not all automotive writers have a clue (I know because I "are" an automotive writer, in my spare time - check out my words of wisdom and a comparison of Charlize Theron's butt to an extremely well-sculpted car trunk in Brickell Magazine - and I realize I am not all-knowing about everything that rolls)
Not all automotive writers have a clue (I know because I "are" an automotive writer, in my spare time - check out my words of wisdom and a comparison of Charlize Theron's butt to an extremely well-sculpted car trunk in Brickell Magazine - and I realize I am not all-knowing about everything that rolls)
06-07-2017 | 02:50 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,983
Likes: 148
From: Montana
Baruth is a 996-hating schmuck. His 914 comments cemented that theory.
Not all automotive writers have a clue (I know because I "are" an automotive writer, in my spare time - check out my words of wisdom and a comparison of Charlize Theron's butt to an extremely well-sculpted car trunk in Brickell Magazine - and I realize I am not all-knowing about everything that rolls)
Not all automotive writers have a clue (I know because I "are" an automotive writer, in my spare time - check out my words of wisdom and a comparison of Charlize Theron's butt to an extremely well-sculpted car trunk in Brickell Magazine - and I realize I am not all-knowing about everything that rolls)
06-07-2017 | 02:51 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,657
Likes: 321
From: Hollywood, Florida
^ agreed - kinda like what the Donald does. The call for Baruth's firing is a bit extreme, IMO.
Still, not all auto writers are all-knowing and it's ok to disagree with them from time to time. Lord knows 99% of the planet does so with Jeremy Clarkson who is also pretty much anti-911 99999% of the time (he did like the 996 GT3)
I'm sure a few took exception to my review of the Fiat (hack, wheeze, cough "Mazda with a Fiat 500 engine") 124, in which I theorized hairdressers named Vance are the target demographic Fiat is hoping to attract.
Still, not all auto writers are all-knowing and it's ok to disagree with them from time to time. Lord knows 99% of the planet does so with Jeremy Clarkson who is also pretty much anti-911 99999% of the time (he did like the 996 GT3)
I'm sure a few took exception to my review of the Fiat (hack, wheeze, cough "Mazda with a Fiat 500 engine") 124, in which I theorized hairdressers named Vance are the target demographic Fiat is hoping to attract.
06-07-2017 | 03:26 PM
#59
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 939
From: Henderson, NV
It's tough because on one hand the premise of the article, "Don't buy a 996 to get rich," is not bad advice. I feel that it's the quotes from the article such as this one:
That, in the year 2017, just feels like bullying to be a bully. Wow, we've never heard that one before. Hot take. With his comparison to the 914 I feel like even Jack knows that a few of us flawed nobodies will look back on our time with this car one day and say "Hey, I'd do that again."
I can empathize that Journalism on the internet is a battle for attention and a writer may need to make more sensationalized statements to get clicks. I just feel like the argument over why the 996 is best served putting smiles on faces than dollars in bank accounts could have been written with fewer insults & digs. Picking on "the little guy" is always cheap.
...but nobody will be nostalgic about the 996-generation 911. It was an unloved interregnum between two round-headlight superstars.
I can empathize that Journalism on the internet is a battle for attention and a writer may need to make more sensationalized statements to get clicks. I just feel like the argument over why the 996 is best served putting smiles on faces than dollars in bank accounts could have been written with fewer insults & digs. Picking on "the little guy" is always cheap.
06-07-2017 | 03:58 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,051
Likes: 1,781
From: Chicago, IL
While I don't think 996s will necessarily appreciate in value, the depreciation is done. So you buy and sell for the same price but then pay a lot in repairs and maintenance, except that heavy Porsche repair costs are not necessarily a given. Some of these cars don't break at all and folks are only doing oil changes, brake pads, and tires. In those rare cases, the Porsche 996 is one of the cheapest cars to own, TCO included.