gnat

I agree with your second point, but I haven't seen the first myself.

Seems to me that every time someone tries to start a "996 values are on the rise!!!" thread there are plenty of us to chime in and point out how there really hasn't been more than the seasonal fluctuations for a number of years and that no they shouldn't be bought for investment purposes. Further to that point when people are considering low milage examples we are also quick to chime in about it not being an investment (and will probably be costly if they use it as a driver).

Even the poor ME guys that want to believe those cars will appreciate get their bubble burst regularly by those of us that have watched the market for a long time.

The only non-GT cars we talk about with any hint of collectibility/appreciation are the 40AEs (which have actually dropped considerably in recent years contrary to the rest of the 996 line up) and the rare 4S Cabs.

AWDGuy

I know what I've read and I know I shook my head when I read it. we won't agree, you took offence to this article, I absolutely agreed with it.

Sue Esponte

Stop, please. If you read through the 6 or so pages of this thread, I don't think any of the author's critics have argued that people should invest in a 996 today. It's not the author's conclusion that most of us have taken issue with; it's the fact that his logic doesn't support his conclusion and his article really has nothing to do with investment. It's a sham premise for simply calling the 996 a $h*tty car. That's what has most of us up in arms.

He didn't stop at "it's not worthy of your investment." He went on a dramatic rant limiting its value to "impress someone at a high school reunion," essentially telling buyers to otherwise avoid the model entirely. So, if you agree with the author 100%, you agree the 996 is a $h*tty car. And, if that's the case, you're entitled to your opinion. Suffice it to say, most of us would probably disagree.

So, wait, my ultra, uber, super duper rare, daily driver 4S cab is a potential collectible and I should buy more of them? lol

-Eric

gnat

Your's is doubly collectible being that it's the only known model with the exclusive Aviary option

Pzkw993

The more I read of your comments, the more I'm dead certain that all you did was read the headline (which is provided by the social-media staff at R&T) and start banging on your keyboard.

You've decided to engage in a kind of Jame-Gumb-in-the-mirror play-acting where you're free to read anything you want into the article then claim that anybody who notices this has a "thin skin".

As for the proofreaders who keep braying "LOLZ HE FORGOT THE GT2"... I've actually driven a 996 GT2. It's not a car you would forget. But for me to devote time to it (or the Turbo S droptop, the omission of which also upset people) in the article would mean that I'd also have to talk about the 4S, and the Anniversary car, and so on.

The 996 is not collectible. It's not going to be collectible. Assuming that it needs as much time to appreciate as the rubber-bumper 2.7-liter cars did, that puts your peak 996 years in the year 2038 or thereabouts.

Tell you what. If, in the year 2038, an average 1999 Carrera is worth within fifty percent of the worth of an average 1998 Carrera on the open market, I will cheerfully buy a drink for any and all 996 owners I encounter.

Stop poring through the article for attempts to marginalize you, your family, a particular subcontractor on the 996, or your own personal car which has never faded the paint or burped the A/C because it has 37,400 miles of pampered garage life under its belt. It's not the Book of Revelations. It's the opinion of a long-time Porsche owner and driver regarding Watercooled Investment Hysteria. Period.

rymerc

I liked you better when you posted about racing, autox, and technical issues.

Market speculation is a messy business

AWDGuy

I read the article and he's summed up my 996 experience so far to the T. It's been the least reliable car I have ever owned. i have now dumped more money in these pass 4 years than I paid for the car. I get it everyone's experience will be different. I'm sorry these views upset you but maybe you should grow thicker skin. while many agreed with what you said, others have agreed with the authors position also.

if you love your porsche 996 & its been your reliable car, then who cares what we have to say?

Sue Esponte

Not that it matters but you're wrong.

My "thin skin" comment was directed at your diatribe about being fired. As repeatedly noted, it was hyperbole that went no further than the title. Please move on.

Please show me where I or any of us in this thread, to the best of my recollection, said it was. And, you think I'm the one who's responding without reading?

Wow, talk about having a high opinion of yourself. I guess we're all just idiots who have no experience of our own. "Jack has spoken." It's sad actually. I've actually enjoyed reading some of your articles in the past, even if they tend to be more puff than substance. It's a shame this is the way you respond to criticism.

-Eric

gnat

Your opinion seems to have changed in the last year, but I don't recall seeing any indication as to why.

You kept us all up to date with your rebuild saga which was both informative to those considering (or following) the same path and interesting to those of us that will never do it ourselves. I think we universally appreciate the information you provided both in that thread as well as in other threads where you offered great input on other people's issues and questions.

Through that whole time you appeared to have a good attitude about the whole thing and took the bumps in stride. Just for that alone you were a better man than I as I would have lost my stack long before the end was in sight (which is why I will just send it to Jake if our time ever comes).

Then after it was all back together and finally running you seem to have taken a negative bent to it all. I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel that way, just that it seems surprising and out of the blue.

At the end of the day, however, it was your choice to follow the path that you did. It was certainly a weakness of the M96 that bit you, but what would your monetary equation look like if you had simply sold it as a roller or put another used motor in? Still not great, but I suspect much better than the path you followed. As far as I can tell, at the time you went into the rebuild with your eyes open and understanding that it would neither be easy nor cheap.

billh1963

Every new writer wants to be the next Peter Egan, Henry Manney III, etc.

The problem is, they don't quite get the formula. Their shrill attention getting social media driven style is not a style that will last. I hope all aspiring writers really READ the stories written by the great ones...maybe they'll learn something.

AWDGuy

lots of emotions went into this for me. I'm still not over it. I don't think I will ever be.

and TBH, if someone came along and offered me the right money for my car, I'd probably take it and hand them the keys.

_LPPL_

The 996 has been the least reliable car I've owned. But that's a little unfair given its age (16yo) and the make & year of my other cars. A guy I know in the local car club is actively looking for a 996. He's been briefed on its status as a relatively good car for a DIY-capable owner, but a nightmare for someone on a budget and lacking technical ability. This categorization is separate from the broad disclaimer that 70% of the car's value is tied up in the health of the engine. Any purchase should weight this fact and focus primarily on the health of the engine. A difficult task, but one that can be done with the understanding that the goal is to reduce risk - not entirely eliminate it. It's unfortunate how many owners go the unethical route & create situations like the one you experienced.

Gnat's experience, while perfectly valid and fair to bring up, has little to do with those looking at buying used models with variable ownership history. A material portion of the inventory available will fall short of Gnat's maintenance standards, so his experience should be viewed accordingly.

Sue Esponte

First, I'm not sure where your thin skinned comment came from. Did I react angrily to you about something? I've repeatedly said that people are entitled to their opinions about the 996. I even said the same directly to you. I'm truly sorry if I offended you somehow.

Second, I didn't know your experience with the car but, based on Gnat's comment, I'm assuming your IMSB blew and you went ahead with a rebuild. I'm sorry to hear about your experience and, not that you owed it to me (or anyone), but if I'd known you had a bad experience I would have better understood where you were coming from. In all honesty, I'd probably take a very different position on the 996 if I had your experience, as well.

As for your last statement, I could say the same to you. Who cares, right? Except, this is a 996 forum and, presumably, many (if not most) of us are enthusiasts of the model. So, yeah, I/we care about the 996. In fact, it's probably what brought most of us here (other than Jack who clearly takes issue with hyperbole and criticism, and seems to enjoy being a troll).

-Eric

gnat

Totally get that and as I said, you handled the whole process far better than I could have.

For what it's worth I think you'll always be a rockstar of the 996 world. You an Ahsai have been amazing

gnat

I think this is true of any used car though. I saw the same stuff in the e30 world when you could pick up a decent RWD for $1500 or AWD for $2500. People would jump in and then be shocked at the amount they needed to put into them relative to the buy in price.

Actually I'm pretty honest that we've always had lax standards about maintenance. Our OCI schedule gives some members here ulcers. We didn't do the 6yr/60k service until it was 12 years old and had the 60k. We don't follow schedules, but instead just fix what's broken, looks like it's going to be broken, or is cheaper to do while something else meeting that criteria is getting done. It's also lived it's entire life outside with no protection from the elements and we drive it in any and all weather/road conditions.

The key difference is that we know how it was driven for all of it's 75k and know if something doesn't feel right vs wondering if that's just how the cars are. That certainly plays into my lack of fear about the car. The other part, however, is that it is worth more than the sum of it's parts to us. So if we ever get hit by a catastrophic failure, we will sink the money into it for it to live again. I'll choke signing those checks to Jake and stress over the lead time, but the result will be worth it if we ever have to do it.

Hell, I can't even say that I love the car. I love her though and she loves it. I do, however, appreciate it for what it is and can enjoy driving it.