Sue Esponte

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ws&date=060617

res ipsa loquitur

For what it's worth, I'm not so naive as to believe our 996es are going to skyrocket in value overnight or any time soon, and I don't think our cars are perfect, but I think Jack's clear hatred of the 996 (evident from the language he uses to describe various aspects of the car) has fueled his opinion far more than logic. Would I advise someone to invest in a 996 as a collectible? No, but only because it isn't collectible today and I don't think it's on the cusp of becoming collectible.

Feel free to disagree, flame, whatever. I don't have the time or patience to tear apart his argument but, suffice it to say, it's not a surprise he didn't learn anything from his failed prognostication about the future of the 914.

-Eric

5CHN3LL

The argument that there are too many 996's - which actually IS a good argument - soon falls away, and the author's real argument, "the air-cooled cars have character that no modern car has," floats to the surface like a carbonated turd hatched after a night of binge drinking.

He vacillates back and forth between "not good" and "not rare" so much that they seem to be interchangeable. In fact, they ARE - but only to someone who is intentionally blind to what is good about the 996-era cars.

If the article was "Why I will always hate the 996-Generation 911," it would have been more accurate...but I probably wouldn't have bothered reading it.

There are people who think the 996 is a diamond waiting to be discovered. Some of us love the car and don't care what "car people" think. And then there are people who will insist that it is inferior in every way.

The 996 is faster. "Well, yes, but the air-cooled car FEELS faster."
The 996 is INSANE value for what you'll pay for one. "Yeah, but the engine might fail, and then your cheap car will cost you a little more, but still less than if you'd bought my car." *crosses arms and looks confident even though that one didn't even make sense*
The 996 is lighter. "Well, it wouldn't have been if they'd used better materials in the cabin! Like palm fronds and dirt. Those are CLASSIC interior materials!"

gnat

I'm not quite clear on something in that article. Does he think the 996 will never be rare?





Guy is definitely one of the "not a real Porsche" ilk. Fvck him and the lawnmower he rode in on. His opinion is just that and everyone has one.

Contrary to the hysteria and hyperbole that people like him fling about like monkeys flinging poo, the 996 has proven itself to A) be a real 911, B) be a generally good car, and C) be a damn good car for the money.

Sue Esponte

Rennlist really needs a like button for posts.

Even the argument that there are "too many" starts to break down when it comes to models like the Targa or C4S which were produced in smaller numbers. Regardless, to your point, I think the real basis for his argument is that he hates the 996 and it should, therefore, never be collectible.

If difficulty of servicing the engine was the basis for whether a car would be collectible, nobody would ever collect any Ferrari. For that matter, if reliability was a paramount factor, nobody would ever collect ANY Italian car. His argument is so flawed, I don't know where to begin.

-Eric

Tlaloc75

I've always been a fan of the aircooled cars and when the 996 came out I turned my nose up. I had a friend who sold his 3.2 for a brand new 996 in 1999 and I thought he was insane. He gave me a ride and I remember thinking, "hmm this isn't so bad."

That's where my opinion stuck for almost 20 years until I had a chance to drive one for myself a couple months ago. It was a 2001 with about 90k miles and in pretty good shape. Not perfect, but a nice driver. It immediately felt like a 911 only different. Light on its feet and heavy rear end? Yes, but just a little less rear-end feel (fear?). Engine growl and transmission whine? Yes, but just a little bit more muted. Entertaining acceleration and handling? Yes!

I still prefer my 993, but not by a huge margin. If it wasn't for engine-fear I think they'd be worth a lot more money. They look good, they drive extremely well, they have great 911 character and are all around fun. If you own one and its taking good care of you, count yourself lucky to be getting such a great 911 experience for such a great price.

Every time I see a 996, I stop and stare just like any other 911. It doesn't seem 'lesser' to me in any way other than the reliability fears that have popped up and clearly can be addressed if you do your homework

David993S

As one who owns both a 993S and a 996, he's clearly just spouting biased automotive drivel designed to raise the ire of 996 owners. Who cares what he thinks, even if a couple of his points are probably true. I don't care about the 996 faults (fixable) or its value as I didn't buy the 993 or the 996 as investments.

I picked up a recent R&T issue recently waiting in the dentists office and was reminded why I stopped subscribing many years ago.

5CHN3LL

Here's a counterpoint: An old neighbor of mine is having to sell his 993 because he is unable to get in and out (he has tremors that are getting worse with age). While I will help him find a buyer, I was a bit surprised that I have NO interest in selling my 996 and using the proceeds to help buy the 993. Sure, I've never considered it before, but at the point he's willing to sell his car at a $10K+ markdown to me, it's enjoyable to realize that I wouldn't dump my 996 to fund the purchase of a "better" 911.

Maybe that's the key - when I consider the two cars, the 996 is the winner. I can see the criteria that other people are using, and when you use those, sure, the older cars rate highly. I wouldn't change this if I could - why would I want to be obsessed with the rare, expensive 911? I quite enjoy liking a car I already own.

When he does decide to put the car up, I'll be posting it on RL for him. He's hoping to find a "forever" home for the car...and I don't need the money enough to be willing to lie about holding it vs. flipping it.

Bash Hat

Pretty sure he just contradicted himself by saying the 914 was not a real Porsche and a horrible car that nobody wanted, but then goes on to say how it appreciated 15 fold in value while in the same breath says the 996 won't appreciate as it's a horrible car that nobody wants...

What people consider fugly now may be considered unique and highly sought after in the future. "Fried eggs" or GT1 lights..... The perception will dictate value.

VivG

Only the hottest of hot takes. Zig when everyone else zags, gotta do it for the clicks.

gnat

And one that you can not give a damn about putting miles on.

Honestly I'm glad I didn't pick up my friend's 97 Targa when she sold it. I firmly believe in "it's just a damn car! drive it!", but I think even I would be cringing regularly about A) driving it and B) not having a garage to park it in.

Gonzo911

If all these 996's continue to grenade due to IMSB failures, they will indeed be rare and worth a pretty penny. Although undriveable under the circumstances.

Based on the first page of the 996 Forum, that is clearly happening as we speak...

Tlaloc75

I have a 993 and I put the miles on it. Its made to be driven and driven is what it gets. I'd rather have a meticulously cared for driver vs. a garage queen I can't enjoy and which is hiding component failures due to age not miles.

In other words, both the 993 and the 996 should be driven to keep them mechanically happy AND to provide value to their owners.

jaetee

How does the saying go? Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one.

This was just a tad bit harsh IMHO:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ws&date=060617

Sue Esponte

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...m-r-and-t.html

Not that I don't want to respond here. lol

-Eric

gnat

I absolutely agree.

You may be able to search my history to find more detailed tirades on the subject, but the short story is that the best I could offer her was $25k at a time when they were already $35-40k. So I didn't insult her with such an offer. I then found out that she sold it to her Indy who was the only one to ever touch it since she picked it up in 98. They gave her a whopping $20k and immediately had it on their website for $40k. It lasted 3 days. Comparable cars seem to be in the 60-70k range now.

That would have been a value jump in a short enough time that even I couldn't ignore...