Ben's plenum
04-07-2017, 02:34 PM
#32
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Real wold R&D should be done by the developer before it’s offered to the public. The quote "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." explains the simplest of ways why this is necessary.
04-07-2017, 02:36 PM
#33
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
04-07-2017, 02:45 PM
#34
Race Director
Fair enough. I'll restate: "At least Ben bothered to share dyno results. That puts him ahead of about 90% of other aftermarket suppliers."
04-07-2017, 02:55 PM
#35
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Exactly.
I know well the difference between glass filled nylon and the one the plenums are made off, and as I said, this is why I needed to compensate for the lesser strength with design trick (ribs and wall thickness).
The heat and chemical resistance are very close between the two.
You guys have basically answered everything already!
I can understand the fear of failure, especially if you haven't seen the part in person, but I'm pretty confident with this one. The Boxster ones are longer, with a lot less ribs, and so far have survived well and showed no sign of fatigue (not being glass filled makes it more resistant to fatigue).
On that note, look at how much your intake manifolds move when you apply and release the throttle!
As Gelb and Meir said, I don't make a living out of that. I won't push anyone into buying anything from me, and never did. I make stuff because I want them, or my friend want them, then other people want them, so I make more
I also made a great, cheap throttle pedal extension, I thought it was my best idea and I loved it... nobody ever wanted one ahah!
Andrew, I'll e-mail you tonight.
So far, the part haven't been tested, even for fitment, so if you want one, you'd be a guinea pig and will have to figure out the intake tube and PCV vent connection (which is still the main question of this thread!).
I did that for the Boxster's ones, so why not for the 911's!
Bill, nope, I usually paint them outside, it looks better and also seals the surface.
The inside stays bare, you don't see it anyway (it does get really dirty though...)
I had one guy paint it red to mach the rest of his engine bay came out good!
Ben
I know well the difference between glass filled nylon and the one the plenums are made off, and as I said, this is why I needed to compensate for the lesser strength with design trick (ribs and wall thickness).
The heat and chemical resistance are very close between the two.
You guys have basically answered everything already!
I can understand the fear of failure, especially if you haven't seen the part in person, but I'm pretty confident with this one. The Boxster ones are longer, with a lot less ribs, and so far have survived well and showed no sign of fatigue (not being glass filled makes it more resistant to fatigue).
On that note, look at how much your intake manifolds move when you apply and release the throttle!
As Gelb and Meir said, I don't make a living out of that. I won't push anyone into buying anything from me, and never did. I make stuff because I want them, or my friend want them, then other people want them, so I make more
I also made a great, cheap throttle pedal extension, I thought it was my best idea and I loved it... nobody ever wanted one ahah!
Andrew, I'll e-mail you tonight.
So far, the part haven't been tested, even for fitment, so if you want one, you'd be a guinea pig and will have to figure out the intake tube and PCV vent connection (which is still the main question of this thread!).
I did that for the Boxster's ones, so why not for the 911's!
Bill, nope, I usually paint them outside, it looks better and also seals the surface.
The inside stays bare, you don't see it anyway (it does get really dirty though...)
I had one guy paint it red to mach the rest of his engine bay
came out good!Ben
04-07-2017, 03:09 PM
#36
Drifting
I wonder if Imo00 just sits on his computer all day and actively looks for things to argue about. 4 posts a day for 14 years straight and still manages to rarely contribute anything constructive has got to be some kind of forum record or something. Can we talk to the mods and try to get him some more flair under his user name maybe? Something like "Admiral Asinine Arguer"?
04-07-2017, 03:49 PM
#39
Race Director
I get s**t for using "pedantic" too often, but...
04-07-2017, 04:18 PM
#41
Drifting
I wonder if Imo00 just sits on his computer all day and actively looks for things to argue about. 4 posts a day for 14 years straight and still manages to rarely contribute anything constructive has got to be some kind of forum record or something. Can we talk to the mods and try to get him some more flair under his user name maybe? Something like "Admiral Asinine Arguer"?
How sad that such a simple proposal attracts argumentative,negative comments. It leaves the impression the issue is not the diy project but something else.
If you have a contribution to make to advance the project -great tell us all about your idea .If you can suggest a way to avoid a problem- even better .If you just had a bad day - seek help elsewhere.
Imo is a smart, experienced car guy and an Engineer.He has much to offer in helping us.
But Ben actually makes new things and tries them .You can participate if you want .Nobody is coerced into buying anything.It is all up front - just a tinkering diy project. Most of the tinkering we do and discuss on Rennlist comes with risks to the car and ourselves. Why pick on this little issue and this nice guy?
This is an example the snippy nonsense that drives people away from the Forum or makes them reluctant to share/ask.A case of ,misdirected browbeating perhaps ?
Back to the positive
Projects like Ben's save the old car hobby to some extent. No big name company is going to invest in a low volume,low profit item like this .But a few of us would like to try one. It is guys like Ben who help us to keep the community vibrant and enhance our enjoyment of the car and the hobby. So thanks to all of you tinkerers who share your inventions and ideas. Even the bad ones like inappropriate IMSB's.
Here is an example from a much maligned but far more valuable car - the Jaguar XKE. The clocks fail. Nobody sells a better clock as a replacement. A wonderful old guy called Mike Eck figured a cheap diy fix. Great, the clocks now run like Swiss watches now. Pity about the rest of the car.....! The supercharged Jag XJR has an issue with a little oil in the s/c system and a collapsing hose causing havoc with emissions. A simple diy Forum hack with a piece of aluminum tube and a small catch can solved it.
We need all the help we can get. So all you inventive types -step up and help the M96 enthusiasts please.
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 04-07-2017 at 05:26 PM.
04-07-2017, 05:12 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As the OP of this thread, I feel free to join the hijack. 
Let’s shift it a bit from the search for the silicon elbow (although I still need it) and WW 3 that just started, and let me share with you my thoughts about this mod, and why I’m so interested it.
At the moment, my car (02 996 C2 40K miles) is stock. I use it as a daily driver, and I do all the work on it myself, just like I did with my previous Porsches.
One of the first mods I did on my first Porsche (01 Boxster S) was removing the cats and installing the bypass pipes.
Everyone was recommending it, and talking about the improvement in performance, and some vendors even showed dyno graphs with increase of 10-15 HP.
Since I’m the last guy in the world that will drink the Kool-Aid, let me tell you my opinion on that mod.
About HP gain, I don’t know. I never dyno’ed the car.
From feel point of view, it definitely felt quicker and stronger on the high RPM, but also felt flat and slow (like its missing torque) on the low RPM. I can care less about additional 10-15 HP at 6500-7000 RPM.
Sure, if you go to the track on regular basis, go for it. I want more power on takeoff.
For a daily driver that lives between the 2K-4K RPM not only that it doesn’t add, it eventually disrupts.
So two months after the bypass pipe installation, the cats went back on the car.
This is my impression (on the 986 not sure how it’s on the 996) and my own personal opinion, if someone has an opinion of his own about this mod, he is more than welcome to share with us.
Now back to the plenum.
As mentioned on my previous post, I came across the plenum by mistake while I was evaluating Ben’s short shifter. And even though his car had aftermarket exhaust, headers and bypass pipes, there was still plenty of torque on the low RPM.
The dyno run showed previously was done on a car with no mods at all. It clearly shows that although the gain in HP and torque is minor (3HP and 3Ftlb), the torque band is showing sooner on the low RPM (I hope I word it right).
Now let me throw another mod to the mix. UDP.
The UDP ids probably the “best bang for the buck”, and I never heard about someone saying that he is unhappy from this mod, or feel no difference in performance.
Can anyone guess how many HP you gain by adding a UDP?
Let me help you:
Bottom line, we are talking here about a pure DIY project. Dyno numbers means nothing to me.
If I will feel the car will response and drive better (just like with the UDP), then I will be happy.
Some points to clear for those who are still in doubt.
None is soliciting anyone to buy this product.
It is not “offered to the public”, “seating on a shelf”, “for sale on ebay” or any other website.
I’m just sharing my personal experiment, and if one wishes to participate, he is more than welcome. The more opinions we get the better.
Ben spent a lot of time designing this product on the CAD per my request, and based on my obligation to buy one part. I’m very thankful for that, no matter what will be the final result
Worst case scenario I will to end up with a super cool TIG rod holder for my work bench.
Let’s shift it a bit from the search for the silicon elbow (although I still need it) and WW 3 that just started, and let me share with you my thoughts about this mod, and why I’m so interested it.
At the moment, my car (02 996 C2 40K miles) is stock. I use it as a daily driver, and I do all the work on it myself, just like I did with my previous Porsches.
One of the first mods I did on my first Porsche (01 Boxster S) was removing the cats and installing the bypass pipes.
Everyone was recommending it, and talking about the improvement in performance, and some vendors even showed dyno graphs with increase of 10-15 HP.
Since I’m the last guy in the world that will drink the Kool-Aid, let me tell you my opinion on that mod.
About HP gain, I don’t know. I never dyno’ed the car.
From feel point of view, it definitely felt quicker and stronger on the high RPM, but also felt flat and slow (like its missing torque) on the low RPM. I can care less about additional 10-15 HP at 6500-7000 RPM.
Sure, if you go to the track on regular basis, go for it. I want more power on takeoff.
For a daily driver that lives between the 2K-4K RPM not only that it doesn’t add, it eventually disrupts.
So two months after the bypass pipe installation, the cats went back on the car.
This is my impression (on the 986 not sure how it’s on the 996) and my own personal opinion, if someone has an opinion of his own about this mod, he is more than welcome to share with us.
Now back to the plenum.
As mentioned on my previous post, I came across the plenum by mistake while I was evaluating Ben’s short shifter. And even though his car had aftermarket exhaust, headers and bypass pipes, there was still plenty of torque on the low RPM.
The dyno run showed previously was done on a car with no mods at all. It clearly shows that although the gain in HP and torque is minor (3HP and 3Ftlb), the torque band is showing sooner on the low RPM (I hope I word it right).
Now let me throw another mod to the mix. UDP.
The UDP ids probably the “best bang for the buck”, and I never heard about someone saying that he is unhappy from this mod, or feel no difference in performance.
Can anyone guess how many HP you gain by adding a UDP?
Let me help you:
Bottom line, we are talking here about a pure DIY project. Dyno numbers means nothing to me.
If I will feel the car will response and drive better (just like with the UDP), then I will be happy.
Some points to clear for those who are still in doubt.
None is soliciting anyone to buy this product.
It is not “offered to the public”, “seating on a shelf”, “for sale on ebay” or any other website.
I’m just sharing my personal experiment, and if one wishes to participate, he is more than welcome. The more opinions we get the better.
Ben spent a lot of time designing this product on the CAD per my request, and based on my obligation to buy one part. I’m very thankful for that, no matter what will be the final result
Worst case scenario I will to end up with a super cool TIG rod holder for my work bench.
04-07-2017, 05:20 PM
#43
Race Director
Until you're familiar with the backstory, calling Imo out for that is weak. In fact, the guy deserves props for trying to flag off a possible disaster.
04-07-2017, 05:26 PM
#44
Race Director
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go mock some random strangers on imgur or crush some tender self images via r/roastme...
04-07-2017, 06:36 PM
#45
He was cheerleading the KrazyK experiment through installation. One of his last comments was "looking forward to how this turns out." The guy has a strange agenda. Buys a compromised car with the goal to have the cheapest running 996, ends up pouring time, effort & $ into it only to fail. Uses questionable parts for his builds, mocks anything but backwater budget builds & has still failed to put on any significant mileage in his car. None of this stops him from acting like a master mechanic, of course.