docmirror

Well, it's been a fun almost year since I bought my red 99. This is not a for sale thread, but I'm prolly gonna sell the car next month or in Jan. I have to detail it and want to wait for the holidays to be done I think.

I posted because I kinda wanted to be talked out of selling. Here's my reasons why I'm giving up, and not in any specific order.

Creature comfort. Yeah, it's the little niggly things that make this a hassle. I put in cup holders, and they work fine but really, no cup holders, no glove box, balky heater controls which heat up my right foot, but not the rest of the car, key on the left side, sport seats are tight fit, and ride with the sport pkg is fairly harsh, kinda noisy. I love the AC, and the visibility is very good, but overall it's not a comfort to sit in and drive much.

Testosterone factor with other drivers. I notice the same thing in my Ferrari. I'll be driving along rather moderately and someone in a truck, or a mini-van, or a Miata, or whatever will just have to blow by me with a smug, 'haha, what do you think of THAT?' kind of attitude. I watch them pretty careful because almost always in a mile or two down the road, they slow back near posted speed, and I'll overtake them slowly, or maintain traffic distance. But - they just GOTTA put the pedal down and show that red Porsche a thing or two! It wears me down, because sometimes they make trouble for other traffic and me too.

Reliability. More accurately, the million different ways my driving the car can turn it into a pile of metal and plastic without so much as a 'by your leave, guvnuh'. Cooked or oval cylinders, valve train, IMS, cracked heads, etc. If I have to write a check for more than the cost of the car to make a reliable engine, I keep asking myself; 'what is wrong with this picture'?

Usability. I drove to Houston to visit my son. Four of us want to go to dinner, but he's 5-11, and his buddy is just as tall. No way we are taking the Porsche. But - we all fit in his Prius C just fine. Drive to the lake house. Can't launch the boat, no hitch, can't take boxes of stuff, no room, can't leave it outside it might hail. Take the truck.

Mileage penalty. As we all know, the minute the odo goes from 99,999.9 to 100,000 the whole car will explode into a million bits. Of course, that's not remotely true, and a complete fallacy, and yet, and yet - most buyers will put a purely psychological limit of 100k miles for buying decisions, and I have about 90k on it now. The minute it rolls over to 100k, I'm dead meat for resale. Fair? - of course not. Realty? - oh hell yes.

So, I emailed one of the premier engine builders for a price request. And natch - they got back to me with a bunch of marketing goo, and lots of **** lube - but guess what? they won't even quote an est price!, even though I gave them all the pertinent info needed to make an estimate. I didn't even ask for an accurate estimate, just a ball park, but no - they won't even do that, which speaks volumes. I was really ready to redo the engine into a reliable driver, put in new trans mount, motor mounts, and plan to keep the car forever. But - after that little smidge of reality - I have to let it go eventually.


It's been fun, it's been real, but it hasn't been real fun. The 911 WAS a purpose built machine, but sadly the bean counters got involved and the 996 has been the result. Sure - I can take it out for a spin once in a while, go to breakfast, do lunch, drive back and forth to the airport, pick up the wife from the studio, etc. Making little trips here and there, and using the car as a status symbol of What Real Men Drive is all fine, but at the end of the day, I'm not very happy with my decision.

You folks have mostly been great, and I'll miss the back and forth, but I won't miss the dreaded thread that's coming with a title like; 'I heard this rumble, rumble sound, saw smoke, and now my car won't start'. I'm on the other end of the ownership spectrum, and although my car is running great, and has no outstanding problems, I feel like any of them is just a ticking time bomb, and I have to drive it with my mind thinking; 'will it let go now? will it let go now? Now? Now? every few miles.

Sorry...

Quadcammer

Hey, no use owning a car if you don't enjoy it as much as you thought you might. these are expensive toys and it sounds like there are better options for you. Sounds like a sporty fast sedan might be up your alley.

Good luck

Paul Waterloo

Doc: I remember a recent post of yours where you just LOVED the car after getting used to it taking it out on some back roads.

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out!

;-)

redlineblue

Only way for me to amortize the (wholly unnecessary) cost of operating a Porsche 911 is by considering FUN a credit. Doesn't sound like you're having much fun with yours, so...

sammaw

Understand most of what you saying Doc, i have toyed with selling the 996, but every year i take it to get its service and happily pay. Everyone thinks i am insane putting so much money into what is an old car that is unlikely to become a cult car.But, and this is the big but. Everytime i say its time to move to something else, i get stumped. I have an 85 911, and air cooled wont do what the 996 does. the 997 doesnt feel like a big enough step up, and feel i start at sq 1 again with the upcoming maintenance. so 991? its a big price difference and the electric steering just doesn't feel right. Cayman ( seriously nice, but i like the little back seats) So look into other manufactures. BMW m3. the e30 was the best of them in my view, but nice car, just not the same as a 996 and i have the e30 m3. so the circle of replacement continues, 12 months passes and i happily pay for the next service.

So question to you doc what will you replace it with? for me there is no car on the market that does what the 996 does, for the same entry cost.

docmirror

I did LOVE it. Those were a couple of great drives. No mention of the driving characteristics in my mini-rant. As it should be, the car drives like a dream.

Sadly, love of car is not forever. Some reality has set in I guess.

docmirror

A very true statement. The 996 should have been my holy grail. Cheap to buy, fun to drive sporty, good looking with the aero. What could go wrong?

I don't think I'll replace it with anything. I have a few other cars that fit the sporty bill, and also have the same kind of issues. I'll just keep working on them, and drive what I currently own. None of my current fun cars are in any way better, just that they aren't any worse either. No cupholders in the Ferrari, it's noisy as hell too. Can't fit squadoosh in it, and other drivers give my fits. But they are fun to drive.

dporto

It sounds like you've talked yourself right out of the drivers seat. I see people driving like jerks regardless of the car I'm driving. FWIW, I paid $15,000 cash for my '99 C4 with 134,000 mi. on it. I've since put about 11,000 mi. and $3500 into it (suspension and various little mechanical/cosmetic things, oil changes etc.). If the engine were to blow up, I'm pretty sure I'd put a new/reman/RND/FSI engine in it. Even at $25,000 I'll be driving a great car (that was close to 100k new) for around $45k... Resale doesn't really mean a thing, as I don't plan on selling it. If something really bad happens and I have to liquidate all of my assets, the car will still be worth the "motor $", and I'll chalk the original purchase price up to "use tax"... Good luck with the new Prius

kromdom

No need to apologize. No need to explain or rationalize. No need to wait. SELL IT.

jaetee

I disagree with this particular comment. IMHO, the 996 has all the makings of becoming a cult classic... and we are at the cutting edge of that happening now. First watercooled 911, last 911 of the 20th Century, most visceral of the watercooled, etc... The thing is, who has the kind of patience it might take to wait that out if money is the true motivator? And how many miles do you want to rack up on your ride and depreciate it?

And for Doc... what Ferrari do you have? I think it's likely that car will continue to appreciate more than any 996 over the next decade, but which is ultimately more fun to drive? And even with all of the alphabet soup of things that might go wrong with a 996, which will cost you less to maintain long term? Depending on which one you have, it seems to me the Ferrari would cost considerably more when it comes time to do scheduled maintenance required to keep the car marketable for max value?

Either way, best of luck coming to a decision. I haven't been here long, but have come to appreciate your posts.

I look forward to watching your sale, hopefully on BAT.

jaetee

Also, it might be a good time to revisit this thread before you leave...

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-articles.html

ditto

It's America, cup holders make the car. Or is the left side ignition the dealbreaker. Sounds like your heater needs some work, my 99 has great heat.

I have no problem ignoring idiots on the road, they are part of the scenery.

If you can't find fun in driving a powerful car with the engine slung out the back it is indeed time to move on.

davidnyc

Many of your gripes are not 996 gripes but gripes for all non Japanese coupes/sport cars. You just bought the wrong car for your needs. You seem like an Infiniti Q50, or Lexus IS/GS will fit your needs. They blend into most cars here in Texas. Don't necessarily say "I have money, like a German car", they are reliable, and can fit most people in the back seat for short drives. And these cars are "sporty" enough. A track beast? no. Fun? yes.

AWDGuy

If the car isn't fun to you anymore, then sell it. 100%.

-guy who understands

5CHN3LL

Sorry to see a 996er give up on the car, but it doesn't sound like you are that sad to see it go - so I don't see any reason to try to talk you out of the decision. I don't necessarily agree with most of your bullet points...so I'll add some unsolicited opinion you can ignore if you like.

This is precisely why I like the 996. There is enough complexity in the engine bay; I prefer having a car that is a car first, and not a restaurant, or a storage facility, or a Marriott business center. Early 996 reviews were audacious enough to claim that the 996 was Porsche's first effort to make a "luxury" interior; clearly that mark was missed, but I think the 996 interior takes more crap than it probably deserves. My $60K X5 came with NO leather. Anyone who has evern tried on a Lotus will suddenly realize the 996 isn't that terrible in the creature comforts category...

Yup, the engine can be problematic; I think we all agree that this is the Achilles heel of the 996. I suggest recalibrating your reliability-ometer by driving a 20-year-old Jag for a year to get a reminder of what it feels like to live with crappy reliability. The day I pushed in the cigarette lighter on our series 3 XJ and the seatbelt warning started yelling as the driver window dropped set my high water mark for lousy reliability; it has yet to be eclipsed by the 996.

I got nothin'.

You were dead meat for resale when you bought it - but that's the blessing AND the curse of the 996. Cheap to get into? Probably. Cheap to keep running? Not really. Cheap to get out from under? Not yet. Maybe someday; maybe not.

Some of your gripes are 996 specific; others are part of the reality of driving a 17-year-old sports car.

I hope whatever you move on to ticks the boxes you've mentioned. Good luck...