$14k Cayman with nothing wrong?
08-26-2016, 11:24 AM
#46
Hi Bruce. Thanks for coming on and telling your side of the story. One quick clarification though is I think you didn't read my post very carefully. My plan was to examine the sump, get a UOA, and document it. Then drive 3500 miles, pull the sump again, get another UOA and document it. All of which would be posted on this forum so that a potential buyer would have all of the facts. You can check out my two '99 threads and other posts to see that I not only post the preventative maintenance I've done, but also the stupidity of using the wrong gas, twice. I have a lot of character flaws but lack of transparency isn't one of them.
Now then, as a customer of Autowerks, I would like to registered a complaint with the owner who I assume is you. I engaged your company to perform a PPI on a car for me that was in your shop that I was purchasing. I had reached an agreement with the car owner to purchase the car for $10k as long as no other major issues were found. I put this in writing and verified verbally with the owner twice to prevent paying for the PPI and then having the owner back out.
I then immediately called and talked to Johnnie (your shop foreman?), told him I had purchased the car pending completion of the PPI, and requested completion of the PPI along with photos of the particles in the oil filter. Johnnie took my credit card information, phone number, and told me the car was very nice and he didn't think there were any other issues. One thing that I thought was strange was he asked how much I was purchasing the car for. I just assumed it was curiousity and told him. We agreed he would call back with the results. An employee of your company then contacted the owner and convinced him that he should sell to your employee, for the same price I had negotiated, instead of me. I consider this unprofessional and unethical. I trusted your shop with information, after engaging it for business, and one of your employees used it for their gain. To have your insult me, a customer, in my home forum with your very first post on Rennlist just adds insult to injury.
Now then, I would also like to speak to you on a professional level. As has been stated on this board, I think it is a HUGE conflict of interest for a shop, or their employees, to purchase a vehicle, at less than half of market value, that they have diagnosed as catastophically damaged. Especially when the car runs and drives perfectly without issue. In addition, your shop provided no proof to the customer of the diagnosis. You based it upon finding particles of metal in the filter and instantly assumed it was the IMSB. Even though the '06 IMSB's have less than a 1% failure rate. You did not recommend further due diligence of examining the sump. You did not recommend having the metal analyzed via an Oil Analysis ($28!!!!) to see if it was even the same metal type as the IMSB. Your shop conveniently declared that it was one of the single most hyped failures in Porsche engine history.
The crazy thing is, we get this same story on this Forum, different flavor, about every month or two. Two of the four responses when the car owner posted his story and his car for sale were recommending he get a second opinion. That's because everyone is sick and tired of seeing people get duped by this crap. Could the IMSB be in the process of failing? Sure. But I would think that you would do a little more due diligence than seeing particles in a filter before recommending a loyal customer take a $13k loss on their car. I have had particles in both of my filters (two '99s, one with an 06 crate M96 replacement) at times and you can go look in the Blackstone oil analysis thread to see precisely what the content was because that's where I posted the results.
And as to the technician that is going to pull apart the engine now that he has purchased it to verify the IMS is bad. If it's not, is he going to pay the additional $13k that the car is worth if his cursory diagnosis is wrong?
Now then, as a customer of Autowerks, I would like to registered a complaint with the owner who I assume is you. I engaged your company to perform a PPI on a car for me that was in your shop that I was purchasing. I had reached an agreement with the car owner to purchase the car for $10k as long as no other major issues were found. I put this in writing and verified verbally with the owner twice to prevent paying for the PPI and then having the owner back out.
I then immediately called and talked to Johnnie (your shop foreman?), told him I had purchased the car pending completion of the PPI, and requested completion of the PPI along with photos of the particles in the oil filter. Johnnie took my credit card information, phone number, and told me the car was very nice and he didn't think there were any other issues. One thing that I thought was strange was he asked how much I was purchasing the car for. I just assumed it was curiousity and told him. We agreed he would call back with the results. An employee of your company then contacted the owner and convinced him that he should sell to your employee, for the same price I had negotiated, instead of me. I consider this unprofessional and unethical. I trusted your shop with information, after engaging it for business, and one of your employees used it for their gain. To have your insult me, a customer, in my home forum with your very first post on Rennlist just adds insult to injury.
Now then, I would also like to speak to you on a professional level. As has been stated on this board, I think it is a HUGE conflict of interest for a shop, or their employees, to purchase a vehicle, at less than half of market value, that they have diagnosed as catastophically damaged. Especially when the car runs and drives perfectly without issue. In addition, your shop provided no proof to the customer of the diagnosis. You based it upon finding particles of metal in the filter and instantly assumed it was the IMSB. Even though the '06 IMSB's have less than a 1% failure rate. You did not recommend further due diligence of examining the sump. You did not recommend having the metal analyzed via an Oil Analysis ($28!!!!) to see if it was even the same metal type as the IMSB. Your shop conveniently declared that it was one of the single most hyped failures in Porsche engine history.
The crazy thing is, we get this same story on this Forum, different flavor, about every month or two. Two of the four responses when the car owner posted his story and his car for sale were recommending he get a second opinion. That's because everyone is sick and tired of seeing people get duped by this crap. Could the IMSB be in the process of failing? Sure. But I would think that you would do a little more due diligence than seeing particles in a filter before recommending a loyal customer take a $13k loss on their car. I have had particles in both of my filters (two '99s, one with an 06 crate M96 replacement) at times and you can go look in the Blackstone oil analysis thread to see precisely what the content was because that's where I posted the results.
And as to the technician that is going to pull apart the engine now that he has purchased it to verify the IMS is bad. If it's not, is he going to pay the additional $13k that the car is worth if his cursory diagnosis is wrong?
08-26-2016, 11:32 AM
#48
Rat Balls
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I just wonder if they actually charged him.
08-26-2016, 11:33 AM
#49
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08-26-2016, 12:15 PM
#51
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And for the record, the car owner was very good to deal with overall. He's a sweetheart of an old guy. I've been involved in transaction before where everyone just quits talking to you and now that's annoying. But he had the courtesy to call and tell me over the phone. I got VERY aggressive in trying to convince him to change his mind (that's when my personality came out.) He even answered the phone when I called him back 30 minutes later to apologize for being so aggressive. I've changed my mind on deals before, it happens, no big deal.
I hope not. They haven't even sent me the results yet!
Had an employee pulled that sort of bullsh!t in my shop I would fire them on the spot. Very poorly handled by these peeps. Integrity and honesty is hard to come by and when you are dealing with people pulling this stuff, it tells you a lot about the company and the people it has on staff.
The one thing about the deal falling apart was not having to drive a Cayman S tip for 3500 miles. If I'd fallen in love with it and decided to sell my '99 DD, Alpine would never let me live it down!
08-26-2016, 12:38 PM
#52
08-26-2016, 12:45 PM
#53
Drifting
I wonder how many times "Bruce" and his employees have pulled this scam to boost their profits?
Please note this is clearly a rhetorical question .And a legitimate doubt given what has been written.
Please note this is clearly a rhetorical question .And a legitimate doubt given what has been written.
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 08-26-2016 at 02:26 PM.
08-26-2016, 01:06 PM
#55
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This kind of thing has happened to me many times... one example...
Had an intermittent problem with an $8,000 Sony HD color reference production monitor. We sent it to a Sony independent service center in Atlanta. We specifically asked for an estimate before rendering any work on it. They normally charge one hour of labor (i.e. $100) for an estimate.
Later that week, the service manager called my engineer and said the display module would have to be replaced and the cost would be about $3,000. (and you thought Porsche parts were expensive!) Anyway, when my engineer told me that, I almost flipped out of my chair. I said, "That's almost half of the cost of a new one!" I told the engineer to reject service and he did. Later that afternoon the service manager called and said they'd "take it off our hands for the cost of the estimate". At this point, you could see the blood rushing up my neck. I'm like... "Let me get this straight, they're willing to wave the $100 fee if we give them our $8,000 monitor?" Engineer says, "yep!" I told him, "you rush down there and retrieve our monitor and note anything that looks broken or not reassembled correctly."
That was 10 years ago and that monitor has worked flawless ever since and problem hasn't showed up. Ha!
Had an intermittent problem with an $8,000 Sony HD color reference production monitor. We sent it to a Sony independent service center in Atlanta. We specifically asked for an estimate before rendering any work on it. They normally charge one hour of labor (i.e. $100) for an estimate.
Later that week, the service manager called my engineer and said the display module would have to be replaced and the cost would be about $3,000. (and you thought Porsche parts were expensive!) Anyway, when my engineer told me that, I almost flipped out of my chair. I said, "That's almost half of the cost of a new one!" I told the engineer to reject service and he did. Later that afternoon the service manager called and said they'd "take it off our hands for the cost of the estimate". At this point, you could see the blood rushing up my neck. I'm like... "Let me get this straight, they're willing to wave the $100 fee if we give them our $8,000 monitor?" Engineer says, "yep!" I told him, "you rush down there and retrieve our monitor and note anything that looks broken or not reassembled correctly."
That was 10 years ago and that monitor has worked flawless ever since and problem hasn't showed up. Ha!
08-26-2016, 01:12 PM
#57
However since we have the VIN: WP0AB29816U784936
One of us with a lot of time on our hands at RL can monitor the used car market to see if it reappears for sale down the line and see what kind of reasoning it's being sold for.
If the tech at the company truly wanted to make it his own, I suspect he would want to keep it for awhile and we will not be seeing this for sale any time soon.
08-26-2016, 01:37 PM
#58
I think it's definitely in a grey area here that opens the door for their reputation to be attacked, but I think the simpler answer is that the seller was offered more by a local entity that he knew and viewed that as an easier path than selling to an unknown quantity in another state.
I think it's crappy on the shop's part to make a counter offer on a car that they have been asked to do a PPI on (regardless of details about this specific case). I also think it's pretty crappy of the seller to have a deal in hand and then pull out like that.
I haven't seen it said so I'm guessing that no deposit was put down on the car before calling about the PPI. If that is true I still think that is a crappy move by the seller to not at least give the option for a counter, but with no money exchanged it is just words.
So from my perspective mistakes were made on all sides.
1) Shop pulled a dick move by making a counter offer on a car they knew an agreement was in progress on.
2) Seller was kind of a dick to accept another offer and/or not give Slakker an option to counter.
3) Slakker should have put down a deposit with the seller to ensure that it was a legally binding transaction (seller could have stick screwed him over and just returned the deposit, but he'd have clear legal options if he want to use them). He also should have kept his mouth shut when the shop got interested about the sale.
That's my $0.02 that no one wants
08-26-2016, 02:08 PM
#59
Race Director
If there was a dick move, it was on the part of the seller. The seller could have easily told the shop, "No, I have committed to selling the car to that guy you're doing the PPI for." Instead, he reneged on an oral agreement (at least as described by Slakker) to sell the car to one party and instead sold it to another.
That the seller decided to dump the car for $10K because there was some glitter in the filter is the Seller's prerogative - some of us think that's lunacy; others would jump on the "full teardown" bandwagon. $10K for a car with a good engine is a STEAL; $10K for a $20K Porsche needing a crate motor or a full rebuild (knowing what we know about the pricing of M96 rebuilds) is a gift. While I can't say I would have decided to dump the car, I can understand why the seller would. The only part of this entire thread that I cannot understand is how the seller rationalized backing out of a deal with one party and selling it to another party for the same price. If someone else had offered significantly more money, backing out would STILL be a dick move, but at least I'd understand the motivation.
My guess is that the seller in this case opted to do business with someone he knew rather than someone on the Internet he doesn't know - so he backed out of the deal with Slakker. Perhaps the shop employee told the seller that he'd want the car if the deal with Slakker fell through, and the seller opted to sell to someone he was familiar with and felt he could trust...but like most of the content in this thread, that's just unsubstantiated hypothesis.
That the seller decided to dump the car for $10K because there was some glitter in the filter is the Seller's prerogative - some of us think that's lunacy; others would jump on the "full teardown" bandwagon. $10K for a car with a good engine is a STEAL; $10K for a $20K Porsche needing a crate motor or a full rebuild (knowing what we know about the pricing of M96 rebuilds) is a gift. While I can't say I would have decided to dump the car, I can understand why the seller would. The only part of this entire thread that I cannot understand is how the seller rationalized backing out of a deal with one party and selling it to another party for the same price. If someone else had offered significantly more money, backing out would STILL be a dick move, but at least I'd understand the motivation.
My guess is that the seller in this case opted to do business with someone he knew rather than someone on the Internet he doesn't know - so he backed out of the deal with Slakker. Perhaps the shop employee told the seller that he'd want the car if the deal with Slakker fell through, and the seller opted to sell to someone he was familiar with and felt he could trust...but like most of the content in this thread, that's just unsubstantiated hypothesis.
08-26-2016, 02:15 PM
#60
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The guy (buyer mechanic) was local and willing to fork out the money without a whole lot of trouble. The seller prolly didn't want to fool with any more haggling over the car and was ready to let the water flow under the bridge and move one.
And I agree, serious conflict of interest that could potential damage the reputation of the business as word spreads. Unfortunately, Slakker did not shake hands and give a deposit. But even then, until the full amount is paid and BOS is signed, anything can happen. Sucks! I've had many car deals go bad when the seller sells it behind my back before I had a chance to hand over the money.