$14k Cayman with nothing wrong?
08-24-2016, 09:18 PM
#17
Race Car
Thread Starter
Haha. This is getting interesting. Shop bought it out from underneath me. Offering them a little extra to be able to do a quick flip. $50 bucks says they wouldn't do it if I offered them $4k extra. 
Also had a conversation with the owner and told him exactly what I think is going on. Recommended he take it to another shop for a second opinion before taking a bath on the car.
Also had a conversation with the owner and told him exactly what I think is going on. Recommended he take it to another shop for a second opinion before taking a bath on the car.
08-24-2016, 09:19 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Haha. This is getting interesting. Shop bought it out from underneath me. Offering them a little extra to be able to do a quick flip. $50 bucks says they wouldn't do it if I offered them $4k extra.
Also had a conversation with the owner and told him exactly what I think is going on. Recommended he take it to another shop for a second opinion before taking a bath on the car.
Also had a conversation with the owner and told him exactly what I think is going on. Recommended he take it to another shop for a second opinion before taking a bath on the car.
08-25-2016, 09:08 AM
#20
Race Car
Thread Starter
It's another case of reporting to the customer "metal in the filter", quoting $15k to replace the IMS, mostly labor because the crank has to be split, and oh by the way we didn't save the filter for you to look at.
"What, somebody else is going to buy it? No, you better just sell it to us so you don't end up screwing that guy."
It's good karma that I didn't get it. I really don't want to profit off other people's stupidity.
"What, somebody else is going to buy it? No, you better just sell it to us so you don't end up screwing that guy."
It's good karma that I didn't get it. I really don't want to profit off other people's stupidity.
08-25-2016, 10:54 AM
#21
I once too had the disease of buying multiples of the same car or a derivative. Now that I'm cleared of it, I really do not understand it any more. :shrug: I mean you can only drive one at a time. "Collector" cars are exempt of course.
08-25-2016, 11:26 AM
#22
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-25-2016, 11:40 AM
#23
Race Car
Thread Starter
I had no plans on "collecting" cars. Originally I asked for a picture of the metal in the filter to see if I could help the guy out. The '06 IMS has such an extremely low failure rate that it didn't make sense that the shop was condeming the engine off of some metal in the filter. Especially since, as I later found out, the car had gone 5,000 miles since the last oil change. Here's the response I got:
Slakker:Can you send a picture of the particles found to #emailaddress#?
Owener: Sorry, I can't do it right now. Autowerkes, where the car is, and knows their stuff (owner Bruce Powers is a member of PCA and has track trophies), says, the metal fragments are small, and metallic. Unless the particles are from the timing chain and gears, the only diagnosis is, they are from the IMSB. Re the price, I'm lowering it to $10,000, where I think the car will sell. Thanks for your interest, Ed
So I told him I'd take it. When I asked Autowerkes for a picture of the metal, they made excuses that it was in a bag and they'd have to see if they could get it. I then told them I had purchased the car and to finish the PPI. They took my credit card and said they would let me know if there was anything else but that the car was in really good condition. They also asked me how much I paid which I thought was strange. 2 hours later, the owner called me back and apologized, but that he had instead sold the car to Autowerkes. He agreed he'd gone back on his word but he was sorry and that's how it was.
So yes, I was willing to bet my $10,000 that there is nothing wrong with the car and that this is another typical service shop scam like we have seen before. I would have bought the car, dropped the sump, and sent the oil off for analysis. Then I would have filled it with DT40, driven it 3,500 miles, and repeated the same process. If everything checked, I relist it with UOA result and pictures of the sump and filter at the time of the last change.
It's easy to say now but the only part of the whole thing that doesn't fly was my rationalization that if he wasn't going to listen, and somebody was going to make a profit, it might as well be me. I've always taught my kids that somebody elses actions are never an excuse for your actions. Your values should stay steadfast no matter the circumstances. Sometimes it is tough to practice what you preach though. I saw this as a quick way to get right side up on my "car hobby" and jumped at it.
Slakker:Can you send a picture of the particles found to #emailaddress#?
Owener: Sorry, I can't do it right now. Autowerkes, where the car is, and knows their stuff (owner Bruce Powers is a member of PCA and has track trophies), says, the metal fragments are small, and metallic. Unless the particles are from the timing chain and gears, the only diagnosis is, they are from the IMSB. Re the price, I'm lowering it to $10,000, where I think the car will sell. Thanks for your interest, Ed
So I told him I'd take it. When I asked Autowerkes for a picture of the metal, they made excuses that it was in a bag and they'd have to see if they could get it. I then told them I had purchased the car and to finish the PPI. They took my credit card and said they would let me know if there was anything else but that the car was in really good condition. They also asked me how much I paid which I thought was strange. 2 hours later, the owner called me back and apologized, but that he had instead sold the car to Autowerkes. He agreed he'd gone back on his word but he was sorry and that's how it was.
So yes, I was willing to bet my $10,000 that there is nothing wrong with the car and that this is another typical service shop scam like we have seen before. I would have bought the car, dropped the sump, and sent the oil off for analysis. Then I would have filled it with DT40, driven it 3,500 miles, and repeated the same process. If everything checked, I relist it with UOA result and pictures of the sump and filter at the time of the last change.
It's easy to say now but the only part of the whole thing that doesn't fly was my rationalization that if he wasn't going to listen, and somebody was going to make a profit, it might as well be me. I've always taught my kids that somebody elses actions are never an excuse for your actions. Your values should stay steadfast no matter the circumstances. Sometimes it is tough to practice what you preach though. I saw this as a quick way to get right side up on my "car hobby" and jumped at it.
08-25-2016, 01:10 PM
#25
owner Bruce Powers is a member of PCA and has track trophies
2 hours later, the owner called me back and apologized, but that he had instead sold the car to Autowerkes.
was my rationalization that if he wasn't going to listen, and somebody was going to make a profit, it might as well be me. I've always taught my kids that somebody elses actions are never an excuse for your actions. Your values should stay steadfast no matter the circumstances. Sometimes it is tough to practice what you preach though. I saw this as a quick way to get right side up on my "car hobby" and jumped at it.
2 hours later, the owner called me back and apologized, but that he had instead sold the car to Autowerkes.
was my rationalization that if he wasn't going to listen, and somebody was going to make a profit, it might as well be me. I've always taught my kids that somebody elses actions are never an excuse for your actions. Your values should stay steadfast no matter the circumstances. Sometimes it is tough to practice what you preach though. I saw this as a quick way to get right side up on my "car hobby" and jumped at it.
$10k gamble would've been worth it in my eyes and thanks for being honest. I think a lot of us would've done the same if we had the cash laying around for a local sales transaction.
The whole thing does seem a bit suspect in my eyes too.
I hope this guy doesn't get Chemo for himself or anyone in his family without getting a second opinion first if it ever comes to.
08-25-2016, 01:20 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Wow. That is unbelievable. The guy goes from 'supposedly' thinking he has a great running car to letting it go for next to nothing after one shop says they found metal in the filter? No skepticism or second opinion. No red flags when the same shop that found the metal offers to buy it. Some people just were born to make other people rich.
08-25-2016, 07:47 PM
#28
I have no idea of who or where Autowerkes or Bruce Powers is but after reading this thread, whether he and his shop are in fact innocent or not, if I ever find myself in the position of potentially using their services I will likely take a pass and look for another option.
This is unfortunate in many respects for all involved (or potentially involved) and could have been easily avoided by the shop either substantiating their findings (which isn't really anything they are obligated to do for any of us) or ideally not being involved in the subsequent purchase of the affected vehicle.
Most Porsche shops I know around here have more work than they can handle and don't seem to be hurting at all, but maybe it's not like that everywhere. Doesn't seem worth it to make a few thousand dollars on an automatic-equipped Cayman but what do I know.
The internet's a big place. Stories like this linger.
This is unfortunate in many respects for all involved (or potentially involved) and could have been easily avoided by the shop either substantiating their findings (which isn't really anything they are obligated to do for any of us) or ideally not being involved in the subsequent purchase of the affected vehicle.
Most Porsche shops I know around here have more work than they can handle and don't seem to be hurting at all, but maybe it's not like that everywhere. Doesn't seem worth it to make a few thousand dollars on an automatic-equipped Cayman but what do I know.
The internet's a big place. Stories like this linger.
08-25-2016, 07:50 PM
#29
Ha, yeah, when I see that I either immediately get visions of Tammy Faye Bakker or worse start thinking about Bishops diddling little kids. Not exactly positive role models to emulate...
08-25-2016, 08:20 PM
#30
1st Gear
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Bruce with Autowerkes
First Let me say to Slakker, You have called us out on this forum that we were not above board, when it is YOU, Slakker, that posted on this thread that you were going to flip this car with nothing more than cleaning the sump and an oil and filter change. We must respond to your innuendo and impuning of our shop.
Our long time customer (multiple cars, many years) had his Cayman in because he was selling it and the prospective buyer wanted the oil filter cut apart and examined. We did so and found small shiny ferrous flakes in the filter media. We saved the filter in a baggie and put it in the trunk, installed a new filter and informed both the owner and the prospective buyer along with emailing pictures. The owner of the car has the option of getting a second opinion.
The car's owner was thinking of having us do the repairs. Which means once the engine would be disassembled we would be showing him the parts in his engine. We have to back up our initial findings and diagnosis with actually showing the customer the failure. There is tremendous veracity in having a customer present for disassembly and examination of internal parts.
Unlike you, that can throw out all sorts of BS on this forum and never have to back it up.
The owner of the Cayman also asked us if we new of a business that might be interested in the car as is. We contacted three other business and gave the owner their feedback and their contact info.
One of our technicians said he would be interested in buying the car. He contacted the owner and and they came to a tentative agreement to sell/buy. Our technician and the car's owner have a high level of trust due to the many years of work and interaction with each other. That trust would not be there if not for the forth right way we have conducted ourselves and our business over those years.
Who the owner decides to sell the car to and why is his decision. He is not bound to sell to Slakker or anyone else based on a offer over the phone. Part of who he decides to sell to could be who he feels comfortable with, distance, etc. Slakker's own words on this forum shows he is the one looking to flip this car and take advantage of some unsuspecting future buyer. But that is NOT what he told the car's owner he was going to do with the car.
Slakker, you have also disparaged our customer to make him look stupid and us less than honorable on this forum. Other's, not knowing the whole situation then climbed on the bandwagon.
Being a member of PCA and involved in our club means that as a person representing my company, Autowerkes, I am in front of other members all the time. When I make a statement, I will be held accountable to what I say; I am held accountable to what I do and it will reflect on me and our business. Being involved in PCA pulls no wool over anyone's eyes. In fact, PCA members are usually very knowledgeable, many are of expert status on particular cars, PCA members talk to each other, relate their experiences about who they have service and repair their cars. It behooves us to be good people and conduct ourselves honestly.
We will continue to conduct ourselves in a forthright and honest manner, as we have for the past 37 years. We think highly of PCA members and in no way is our customer to be disparaged as you have done.
But you can just move on after saying that we were perpetrating a scam and our customer is stupid. Not so stupid to see through who you were and what you were going to actually do.
Our technician that is buying the car will be dis-assembling the engine and showing the previous owner the failed part, because our customer is interested and wants to see and we want to show him.
Our long time customer (multiple cars, many years) had his Cayman in because he was selling it and the prospective buyer wanted the oil filter cut apart and examined. We did so and found small shiny ferrous flakes in the filter media. We saved the filter in a baggie and put it in the trunk, installed a new filter and informed both the owner and the prospective buyer along with emailing pictures. The owner of the car has the option of getting a second opinion.
The car's owner was thinking of having us do the repairs. Which means once the engine would be disassembled we would be showing him the parts in his engine. We have to back up our initial findings and diagnosis with actually showing the customer the failure. There is tremendous veracity in having a customer present for disassembly and examination of internal parts.
Unlike you, that can throw out all sorts of BS on this forum and never have to back it up.
The owner of the Cayman also asked us if we new of a business that might be interested in the car as is. We contacted three other business and gave the owner their feedback and their contact info.
One of our technicians said he would be interested in buying the car. He contacted the owner and and they came to a tentative agreement to sell/buy. Our technician and the car's owner have a high level of trust due to the many years of work and interaction with each other. That trust would not be there if not for the forth right way we have conducted ourselves and our business over those years.
Who the owner decides to sell the car to and why is his decision. He is not bound to sell to Slakker or anyone else based on a offer over the phone. Part of who he decides to sell to could be who he feels comfortable with, distance, etc. Slakker's own words on this forum shows he is the one looking to flip this car and take advantage of some unsuspecting future buyer. But that is NOT what he told the car's owner he was going to do with the car.
Slakker, you have also disparaged our customer to make him look stupid and us less than honorable on this forum. Other's, not knowing the whole situation then climbed on the bandwagon.
Being a member of PCA and involved in our club means that as a person representing my company, Autowerkes, I am in front of other members all the time. When I make a statement, I will be held accountable to what I say; I am held accountable to what I do and it will reflect on me and our business. Being involved in PCA pulls no wool over anyone's eyes. In fact, PCA members are usually very knowledgeable, many are of expert status on particular cars, PCA members talk to each other, relate their experiences about who they have service and repair their cars. It behooves us to be good people and conduct ourselves honestly.
We will continue to conduct ourselves in a forthright and honest manner, as we have for the past 37 years. We think highly of PCA members and in no way is our customer to be disparaged as you have done.
But you can just move on after saying that we were perpetrating a scam and our customer is stupid. Not so stupid to see through who you were and what you were going to actually do.
Our technician that is buying the car will be dis-assembling the engine and showing the previous owner the failed part, because our customer is interested and wants to see and we want to show him.