cylinder scoring - can it be solved with a block heater?
01-07-2016, 08:52 AM
#31
Drifting
There have been almost 200,000 M96 engined cars built by Porsche, many of which have lived and been extensively used in frigid climates with no ill effects. Seriously, if what you profess is true then we would be seeing mass scoring issues with this engine and that is simply not the case.
Post your "freezer" data here. Certainly there are others on here with the same parts that can confirm or deny your figures...after all this isn't rocket science, even though in your own mind you think you are some mechanical genius.
Such a huge number of these cars are regularly driven in freezing temps that if temp was the sole reason for scoring then there would be an overwhelming number of cars exhibiting scoring.
Simple common sense proves you are full of BS...would you really have us believe the top German auto manufacturer built an auto, their flagship model no less, that could not be used in cold weather conditions.
01-07-2016, 08:58 AM
#32
Former Vendor
Typical response from you...Where is my data??? Where is your data???
There have been almost 200,000 M96 engined cars built by Porsche, many of which have lived and been extensively used in frigid climates with no ill effects. Seriously, if what you profess is true then we would be seeing mass scoring issues with this engine and that is simply not the case.
Post your "freezer" data here. Certainly there are others on here with the same parts that can confirm or deny your figures...after all this isn't rocket science, even though in your own mind you think you are some mechanical genius.
Such a huge number of these cars are regularly driven in freezing temps that if temp was the sole reason for scoring then there would be an overwhelming number of cars exhibiting scoring.
Simple common sense proves you are full of BS...would you really have us believe the top German auto manufacturer built an auto, their flagship model no less, that could not be used in cold weather conditions.
There have been almost 200,000 M96 engined cars built by Porsche, many of which have lived and been extensively used in frigid climates with no ill effects. Seriously, if what you profess is true then we would be seeing mass scoring issues with this engine and that is simply not the case.
Post your "freezer" data here. Certainly there are others on here with the same parts that can confirm or deny your figures...after all this isn't rocket science, even though in your own mind you think you are some mechanical genius.
Such a huge number of these cars are regularly driven in freezing temps that if temp was the sole reason for scoring then there would be an overwhelming number of cars exhibiting scoring.
Simple common sense proves you are full of BS...would you really have us believe the top German auto manufacturer built an auto, their flagship model no less, that could not be used in cold weather conditions.
Further, you have not read/ comprehended my posts in this thread, and others on this topic. Cold is the catalyst, as I have stated over and over. The other contributing factors can combine to create the failure without cold operation being in the picture, if given enough time to play out.
Cold operation helps to complete the perfect storm earlier. That's all, and that's why I posted that a block heater won't help.
At the end of the day the biggest factors are cylinder wear surface quality, and the running clearances between the cylinder, and piston.
01-07-2016, 09:02 AM
#33
Drifting
The same Hartech that basically said IM$B failure is an overblown myth...the same overblown myth that you used to build your biz?
01-07-2016, 09:04 AM
#34
And he is not going to nor read/comprehend what you have written (e.g. you clearly stated that you believe cold is a contributing factor an not the source of the problem).
Please turn a new leaf this year and just ignore trolls like this
Please turn a new leaf this year and just ignore trolls like this
01-07-2016, 09:05 AM
#36
Former Vendor
You still have not answered my questions, sir. I have answered yours.
01-07-2016, 09:08 AM
#37
Drifting
Contributing factor? JR clearly stated that the "freezer" data would prove his point. This to me sounds like a statement of fact and not a "contributing factor." Well then, let's see the freezer data.
01-07-2016, 09:14 AM
#40
Race Director
From everything I've seen, he has a lot more credibility than Porsche does when it comes to these motors.
As gruff as he can sometimes be, he seems to be the go-to person for m96 motors.
And you...are not. You're some guy who owns the car (hello vested interest) that seems to think every problem these cars have is "fear mongering" because you personally haven't experienced it. Yeah, porsche built a lot of these cars, and not all of them, or even the majority of them have issues. That doesn't mean that the problems presented by Jake are non existent.
YOU, sir, are the one who has no credibility, no experience, no knowledge, and no basis to call BS on anyone, much less Jake.
01-07-2016, 09:17 AM
#41
You are being the definition of a troll in this thread.
Reading != Comprehending obviously.
Cold is a contributing factor. Cold makes metal contract. Cold makes oil flow less efficiently. Those things make the other issues (tolerances, material issues, etc..) that Jake has described more apparent. Cold doesn't create the issue, but it certainly helps it.
Contributing factor? JR clearly stated that the "freezer" data would prove his point. This to me sounds like a statement of fact and not a "contributing factor." Well then, let's see the freezer data.
Cold is a contributing factor. Cold makes metal contract. Cold makes oil flow less efficiently. Those things make the other issues (tolerances, material issues, etc..) that Jake has described more apparent. Cold doesn't create the issue, but it certainly helps it.
01-07-2016, 09:17 AM
#42
Drifting
lol, receive credibility?
From everything I've seen, he has a lot more credibility than Porsche does when it comes to these motors.
As gruff as he can sometimes be, he seems to be the go-to person for m96 motors.
And you...are not. You're some guy who owns the car (hello vested interest) that seems to think every problem these cars have is "fear mongering" because you personally haven't experienced it. Yeah, porsche built a lot of these cars, and not all of them, or even the majority of them have issues. That doesn't mean that the problems presented by Jake are non existent.
YOU, sir, are the one who has no credibility, no experience, no knowledge, and no basis to call BS on anyone, much less Jake.
From everything I've seen, he has a lot more credibility than Porsche does when it comes to these motors.
As gruff as he can sometimes be, he seems to be the go-to person for m96 motors.
And you...are not. You're some guy who owns the car (hello vested interest) that seems to think every problem these cars have is "fear mongering" because you personally haven't experienced it. Yeah, porsche built a lot of these cars, and not all of them, or even the majority of them have issues. That doesn't mean that the problems presented by Jake are non existent.
YOU, sir, are the one who has no credibility, no experience, no knowledge, and no basis to call BS on anyone, much less Jake.
01-07-2016, 09:26 AM
#43
Drifting
The troll in this thread is the resident fear mongering vendor who pulls this "freezing" line every winter to scare the crap out of the owners on this site during the winter months. Let me guess, I'll bet JR's engines don't suffer from scoring.
BTW, still waiting for JRs data that proves his cold weather connection...
BTW, still waiting for JRs data that proves his cold weather connection...
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997Troy (12-15-2019)
01-07-2016, 09:27 AM
#44
Former Vendor
The freezer data only illustrates the behavior of the components during thermal changes, and in a different environment than most things would be precisely measured.
Then grab the piston and hold it in your hands for just 60 seconds and re- measure it. compare what happens before and after with the piston sizing and that gives an indication of how fast the piston responds to combustion chamber temps that elevate and soak into the Pistons on the very first power stroke of the engine.
This is just a simple way that anyone with a few tools can do. When I did this in a Cayenne engine class, every jaw in the room dropped.
Then grab the piston and hold it in your hands for just 60 seconds and re- measure it. compare what happens before and after with the piston sizing and that gives an indication of how fast the piston responds to combustion chamber temps that elevate and soak into the Pistons on the very first power stroke of the engine.
This is just a simple way that anyone with a few tools can do. When I did this in a Cayenne engine class, every jaw in the room dropped.
01-07-2016, 09:32 AM
#45
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That said, the things I mentioned earlier that go along with this failure, as contributing factors can add up to the problem as well, without the cold factor. What proves that is how many scored cylinders occur in the UK (tons) where the winters are very mild compared to here in the USA.
So, do UK cars/owners do a lot more idling and pre-driving-warm ups than US owners? Even worse fuel quality??