KrazyK

I don't think it would help much on cylinder scoring if the damage is done but it would sure make life easier on the crank and rod bearings, valve-train, etc.

Imo000

No amount of pressurized oil will help if the clearance between the piston and the cylinder is not sufficient due to cold temperatures. A bock/oil pan heater will help to increase these clearances so any amount of heat is better than none, if clearance is the problem.


It's basically a big bad drier (air pump) that pumps air into the exhaust manifolds when the engine is cold to help get the catalytics working sooner.

KNS

When I'm starting a car in very cold temps (freezing or below) I let it idle for a few seconds (10 seconds or so) and then drive gently off. I also keep the heater OFF. I know that sounds crazy to some people but you want the engine to get to temp as quickly as possible and driving away with the heater off helps to do it. I read that years ago in a book about making your car far outlive the average vehicle.

I realize a lot of people will not get into a car unless it's warm and toasty on a cold morning but that's how I've been driving my (water cooled) cars for years.

5CHN3LL

The heater core draws heat from the coolant; the thermostat doesn't allow circulation of coolant until the engine is hot. I'm curious (genuinely, not being argumentative at all) how not running the heat makes the engine warm up faster. I'd think that the air-cooled cars would benefit more from keeping the heater off than the water-cooled models...

Quadcammer

Idea being the cold air being blown across the heater core reduces the coolant temperature, causing it to take longer for the coolant temperature to rise and the thermostat to open. Thermostat (as I understand it) prevents flow to the radiators, but the coolant is still circulating through the block as the water pump is still turning.

Aircooled cars rely on exhaust heat to generate cabin heat, so no difference there.

KrazyK

That's why my suggestion to use all three. Climate control, block heater, and pre-lube. The only problem I can see is this would not help if the climate control/block heater options are not available every place you park the car long enough for it to get down to cold ambient temperatures.

I would imagine it would not be an option at every place one travels during the winter months in cold climates. Hence, the best practice is to stick with climate control storage until warmer outside temps are back.

KNS

What Quadcammer said.

When you turn your heat on you're opening up the valves that circulate a (now) larger volume of water through the system - taking longer for it to all warm up.

On a cold morning in my daily (BMW 325i), I can drive off and leave the heater off, or, turn it on and watch how fast the water temp (idiot gauge) reaches its normal range. With the heater off the needle gets there quicker. I can also drive off with the heater off, watch the temp needle rise, then turn on the heat and watch the temp needle pause or even start to reverse direction momentarily and then start to rise again. Not sure if a 996 temp gauge would behave the same way.

Starting up and letting the car idle for five minutes with the heater on really takes a while for the engine to warm up. Like Jake says - that's the worst for numerous reasons.

Now, if I lived in Wisconsin, parked outside in winter, I might have the heat on but still drive off without a long warm-up.

As a side note, my 325i has 200,000 miles on it and uses about 10 ounces or so of oil between 6500 mile changes (if there is any relevance there...).

JTT

Thanks for the great input Jake. How much engine warm up time is too much? I typically start my car and wait till the high speed idle drops down (maybe a minute or two...I store in winter months, so don't deal with extreme cold). Is this too long?

5CHN3LL

Well, BEST practice would be to move to a place where "winter" requires quotes because it's otherwise indistinguishable from the other seasons...

altonj

Can someone who believes cold temps/starts contribute to this please define what these cold temps are? Also, please provide some empirical data to back up the theory.

Cheers

Flat6 Innovations

I see most of the cars come from the midwest US, and all across Canada. We don't really see the issues from south of Tennessee/ Arkansas, unless a hard winter was experienced, like we've had the past two years. During those two years I had failures from as far south as Alabama and northern Texas. We'd never had that before.

The Canadian C4 cars are the worst with the failures. Why? Because they are effective in snow. Monday someone called and I answered the phone. He says "I am in Toronto, and I have a 2005 C4 997" I stopped him right there and said "...and your engine started making a ticking sound, that sounded like a lifter, and you were told that it was. It got a little louder, then the engine started to consume more oil than normal.... then it started to throw misfire codes, and now one of the tailpipes is darker than the other, and the ticking noise is even louder than ever". The phone went silent. I had to ask if he was still there. He then said "How in the world did you explain my issue to me verbatim, has my son already called you this morning?".

My reply was "Sir, I hear this every week, sometimes 2-3 times per week, if I couldn't take the words out of your mouth, you'd never believe that I actually know what your issues are from over 1,000 miles away."

The exact temperature this becomes an issue is not known, and won't be, because of the variables that I mentioned earlier, which effect the dynamics of the failure and makes each a case by case basis. Sure, I could lie to you, and say that one issue is the root of all this evil, but thats not how I am wired.

That said, winter blend fuels, especially in the mid- west are another contributing factor, and one reason why I see more vehicles from there, than we do from the NE, when there are more of these vehicles in the NE.

As far as sharing empirical data, well, I won't do that. Why? Because its just an argument point here online, and on top of that, the data costs money to collect, and I'm not running a charitable organization here. Development is what I do, its my business, and business is good.

You can learn all you need to know with an M96 block & piston, a freezer, a bore gauge, and a micrometer. You just have to understand what the engine, and those data points are telling you.

altonj

Interesting,

Curious because we have 3 motors right now with scored cylinders. Spent most of their lives in the western/southwest states, so when I hear cold weather being the issue it begs the question...

Not sure if you will be here anytime soon providing a WorldPac course (I didn't see any listed this year), but I will enroll and we can discuss our findings. But, I will shoot you an email offline or give you a ring and we can share our thoughts.

Cheers

DreamCarrera

Oh brother, there is so much BS in your posts regarding this issue(not to mention the other B.S. you continually post) that I don't even know where to start.

However, there is one thing I do know and that is you get to retain the doom and gloom/fear monger King award. Yes, not even the troll KK can take this honor from you, IMHO, as he does not earn money from posting his nonsensical scare tactics -- but you do.

Flat6 Innovations

Do a carfax on those vehicles and see where they have been earlier in their lives. When I get a phone call from Florida with this set of symptoms, the vehicle typically has spent a lot of time in a colder climate, and traveled south with it's migratory owner, or its prior owner.

That said, the things I mentioned earlier that go along with this failure, as contributing factors can add up to the problem as well, without the cold factor. What proves that is how many scored cylinders occur in the UK (tons) where the winters are very mild compared to here in the USA.

These failures also occur with Cayenne engines, and the symptoms, as well as the worn components look almost exactly the same. This is odd, because the cayenne blocks are alusil, not lokasil, like the M96/M97.

The cold weather operation factor is just a catalyst for this failure. It is not THE root issue, but it forces the root issue to create symptoms faster.

BTW- Tony Callas and I quit instructing classes for Worldpac early last year. We now instruct for www.theknowledgegruppe.com in cooperation with SSF Auto Parts, and have online, and hands- on classes listed for 2016 on the site now.

Dream Carerra,
How many M96 engines have you disassembled with scored cylinders? How many M96 components have you developed? Where's your data?

gnat

How about with your detailed information about how anything Jake has said is "BS"? How about your resume to show how you have enough experience and knowledge to be considered an authority on the subject?

You sir are the one being a troll and detriment to the thread/forum by posting such useless commentary in an attempt to derail the thread.