Ahsai

Note to self: monitor real-time cam deviations at all rpms when doing a test drive Thanks for the explanation!

Flat6 Innovations

Another note to self...
The sample rate may or may not be enough to actually show you anything. Thats why I use stand alone data loggers, not depending upon OBDII unless I want them too..

Ahsai

Durametric is much faster than OBDII and if you log only bank 1 cam deviation, bank 2 cam deviation, and rpm (but not graph them in real-time, which will be slow), it should have no problems returning tens of samples per second. Then you can do post processing analysis.

Will be difficult to use a standalone data logger for cam deviation as it's computed by the DME in real-time based on both the cam position sensors and crank position sensor, which are pulse signals. I don't even know how a standalone data logger can log pulse signals, let alone processing them and compute the cam deviations.

Got your point about it may or may not show up. If some something weird shows up, at least that tells you something is wrong. If nothing bad shows up, the test is inconclsive.

Flat6 Innovations

A purpose built logger that can use OEM or other sensors can do this, and I have done it. I use these things to develop camshaft profiles and plat against cylinder pressures, or even use transducers in the exhaust to plot changes as well.

That said, this issue would have been found by doing a good, old fashioned sump inspection, more than likely. The sump had a ton of material in the outer edges of it that were very small, and those bits of debris are characteristic with every worn main drive chain that we've seen.

This engine was also NOT qualified for an IMS retrofit as the sump plate had not been pulled off as recently as the engine had been retrofitted. Thats classic. If that would have happened, more than likely this issue would have been caught.

Ahsai

Makes sense. I think we need a sump that has a big screw-on CAP that one can easily remove (with a tool) that is large enough to inspect any debris inside. Then we can check it at every oil change.

Flat6 Innovations

Not necessary.. The IMS Guardian monitors this all the time and chain material is ferrous.

BUT I have pulled off a sump plate in another country, in someone else's shop, using their tools, on a hot engine and swapped it out in less than 40 minutes start to finish and was back on the road. You only need 3 tools to do the job.

Every single car that we see, for ANY reason, has the sump pulled, filter pulled, and gets the finger test.

The sump plate is the window to the soul of the M96/ M97.

Ahsai

Gotcha. I thought you also meant chain pad material (non-metallic). The IMS guardian is definitely be ideal for this application then. I'm starting to think it's wise to install the IMS guardian just to detect these chain issues (in addition to IMSB issues) on the M96, regardless of whether one has already addressed the IMS bearing.

Flat6 Innovations

I said that from the inception of the Guardian.. So far its saved way more engines from chain failures than anything else.

Ahsai

Should rename it as "The Engine Guardian"

Flat6 Innovations

Its already known as that for other applications. I even have these systems running around the NASCAR circuit.

Jon Moeller

Jake,
I'll be swapping the sump pan on my car, in the next couple of months. I'm assuming that any accumulation of material in my sump is a bad sign, but regarding tensioner pad wear, is the material non-metallic?

Thanks,
Jon

laphan

Can IMS guardian detect this?
If debris from chain is magnetic, can the guardian should detect this early?

p.vanderlinden

I wonder if an oil analysis would pick up on the PTFE (Teflon) from the chain paddle (guide) wear ?

Also, would strong magnets on the filter housing attract the chain material for inspection?

Are the chains made of ferrous material or are they some type of non-magnetic stainless steel?

Paul

Spokayman

Jake mentions in post 726 that the chain metal is ferrous and then indicates the IMS Guardian would detect it.

I would think a strong magnet would attract ferrous debris. How would you use such a magnet?
Magnetic drainplugs are commonly used this way already.

Flat6 Innovations

Nope, I've never seen any indication of this. I carry out about 400 UOA per year between my engines and development, and the work that we do for Gibbs. The materials simply are not monitored in the testing regimen. The best way to find these issues is by pulling the sump plate. The material is seldom small enough to make it through the oil sump pick up screen, so it will never end up in the filter.

The first key is to get rid of the junk plastic filter housing, with it's horrifically designed filter bypass. You can then run a steel bodied filter and a Filtermag easily. The filter mag has been around for 50 years, but no one in Porsche circles ever knows about them.

Heavily ferrous.

EVERY engine I build has a spin on filter adaptor, using a steel bodied filter, coupled to a magnetic drain plug. Its been that way since 2007.