We Need Engine Cores! A rash of huge failures leaves our core bank "Bankrupt"!
02-22-2014, 01:10 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
This place is filled with a bunch of cry babies whining about m96 based car resale values, instead of applauding the guys who are coming up with innovative solutions on how to address the weak spots of these cars, and keep them on the roads for many years to come. Well whiners, here are some facts:
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
Last edited by halo777; 02-22-2014 at 02:04 AM.
02-22-2014, 04:03 AM
#93
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This place is filled with a bunch of cry babies whining about m96 based car resale values, instead of applauding the guys who are coming up with innovative solutions on how to address the weak spots of these cars, and keep them on the roads for many years to come. Well whiners, here are some facts:
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
Okay, you need to stop making sense. Begone!
02-22-2014, 08:17 AM
#95
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Georgia
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This place is filled with a bunch of cry babies whining about m96 based car resale values, instead of applauding the guys who are coming up with innovative solutions on how to address the weak spots of these cars, and keep them on the roads for many years to come. <snip>
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
now I will add, as far as value goes, what is never mentioned
say you have a 2000 cab and it has a retail of say 25k ok,
say you drop 8k in it in repairs/upgrades and that car get totaled out, your typical insurance is only going to pay you that 25k, now there is where you might lose actual value, most ins companies will argue just because you did a 8k dollar engine rebuild last week, all that did was bring it to market value, and they are right.
02-22-2014, 08:46 AM
#96
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I can't blame them either, if I had taken five minutes of time before we bought our 996, I would not have bought it, I was looking at later model ones for the wife, buying a 25k dollar car that you might have to put a few thou up to a engine overhaul that costs what 6,8 k? just does not make sense.
heck for that matter buying any car that is only worth 25k and paying 25k for it, that may need 4k put in it the day you buy it, is just silly, and 4 k would be easy to drop just in IMS upgrade, let alone anything else
and one does not know if it needs it or not.... until.....
Heck there are Porsche repair shops here that wont work on the 996
it is the day of the web, even the 70 year olds are now searching the web to research about a product before they buy it
today young people are far more aggressive at it, I was digging into something one day with one of my kids, I forget what now, I was looking around the web and he was too, heck they came back with far more bad than I saw, I asked how he found it so quickly, he said quickest way, instead of looking for reviews and such, just put in "whatever your looking" for sucks huh? well try it once, search for whatever you think of and add a derogatory term. I never thought to look for something like that....
02-22-2014, 09:50 AM
#98
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good point! it just wasnt as popular when is was a usenet (uucp?) news feed, (yea, I remember those days, but thats about it<g>
02-22-2014, 10:41 AM
#99
Rat Balls
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This place is filled with a bunch of cry babies whining about m96 based car resale values, instead of applauding the guys who are coming up with innovative solutions on how to address the weak spots of these cars, and keep them on the roads for many years to come. Well whiners, here are some facts:
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
1) The M96 based 911s values are NOT worse than any other mass-produced European car sold in the last 15 years. I have an 03 C4S, so I decided to pull up values for a handful of 2003 cars (based on Good condition with 80k miles)
03 BMW M5
MSRP: $70,400
$18,183 value is 26% of MSRP
03 Audi RS6
MSRP: $82700
$24,404 value is 29%
03 911 C4S
MSRP: $81800
$27,897 is 34%
03 911 C2
MSRP: $68,600
$22,906 is 33%
03 911 Turbo
MSRP: $116,200
$30,646 is 26%
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
I'll take two.
02-22-2014, 01:54 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
The Turbo values may be on the low side, but probably so are the other 996 values to a certain extent. I pulled them all from the same source, so they should be relative to each other.
$38,346 is 33% of Turbo MSRP, which seems more reasonable. So even in that case, the m96 based cars are still even in depreciation with the Turbos, and less than other European cars (or at least in line with them).
The bottom line is that the m96 cars arent depreciating any more than any of the other cars in their segment.
$38,346 is 33% of Turbo MSRP, which seems more reasonable. So even in that case, the m96 based cars are still even in depreciation with the Turbos, and less than other European cars (or at least in line with them).
The bottom line is that the m96 cars arent depreciating any more than any of the other cars in their segment.
02-22-2014, 02:42 PM
#102
now I will add, as far as value goes, what is never mentioned
say you have a 2000 cab and it has a retail of say 25k ok,
say you drop 8k in it in repairs/upgrades and that car get totaled out, your typical insurance is only going to pay you that 25k, now there is where you might lose actual value, most ins companies will argue just because you did a 8k dollar engine rebuild last week, all that did was bring it to market value, and they are right.
say you have a 2000 cab and it has a retail of say 25k ok,
say you drop 8k in it in repairs/upgrades and that car get totaled out, your typical insurance is only going to pay you that 25k, now there is where you might lose actual value, most ins companies will argue just because you did a 8k dollar engine rebuild last week, all that did was bring it to market value, and they are right.
This way your guaranteed a certain amount payout if it should get totaled.
02-22-2014, 02:49 PM
#103
Rennlist Member
This place is filled with a bunch of cry babies whining about m96 based car resale values, instead of applauding the guys who are coming up with innovative solutions on how to address the weak spots of these cars, and keep them on the roads for many years to come. Well whiners, here are some facts:
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
So, the m96 based cars depreciated significantly less than, not only the other Europeans cars, but much less than even the 911 Turbos (thats right, the ones with the bulletproof engines)!
2) These cars are not an investment. They are mass produced and dont have a cult following like the much lower production 993s. They will likely continue to depreciate as time goes on. If you own one, get used to it. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
3) As these cars age, things will continue to break. We need solutions to the common problems, not coverups, if the value of these cars is to be maintained. Forums like this should be for discussing common problems and their solutions, not for whining about resale value on a 12 year old car. NEWS FLASH, if we dont come up with solutions to fix the common issues, then these cars will become disposable and not worth fixing (as many of the European cars do after 12 years, or so). What do you think will happen to your resale then??? The guys coming up with these solutions should be given great respect. In the end, it is their efforts that will actually keep the series alive.
I have read many of Jake's posts and watched him often be attacked and criticized. All I have ever seen in any of his posts are the straight facts from a person who arguably has the most hands-on experience with these engines than anyone else in the universe.
I have talked to Jake on the phone, and found him to be nothing but helpful, informative, and straight to the point. I have never once felt like he was a Salesman. Talking to him, you can see right away that he has a passion for what he does, and believes in running his operation with the highest standards.
I normally wouldnt waste time on a Friday night composing a lengthy forum post, but some of the posts on this thread are so ridiculous that I had to say something. So, if youre still worried that Jake's postings are going to cause your car to depreciate, I would say it is time to buy another car. Maybe trade it in for a 996 Turbo, as they seem to be undervalued
Well Stated!
Well stated!
02-22-2014, 02:56 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
I have been to Jakes shop, and I have to agree with you 100% about him, as far as the value, buy a Mercedes e class and put 100+k miles on it once, its a 8k dollar car when your done.
now I will add, as far as value goes, what is never mentioned
say you have a 2000 cab and it has a retail of say 25k ok,
say you drop 8k in it in repairs/upgrades and that car get totaled out, your typical insurance is only going to pay you that 25k, now there is where you might lose actual value, most ins companies will argue just because you did a 8k dollar engine rebuild last week, all that did was bring it to market value, and they are right.
now I will add, as far as value goes, what is never mentioned
say you have a 2000 cab and it has a retail of say 25k ok,
say you drop 8k in it in repairs/upgrades and that car get totaled out, your typical insurance is only going to pay you that 25k, now there is where you might lose actual value, most ins companies will argue just because you did a 8k dollar engine rebuild last week, all that did was bring it to market value, and they are right.
02-22-2014, 05:47 PM
#105
Rat Balls
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Related to engine failure, if mine grenades the last thing I would do is put $20k back into this car. I would sell mine as a roller and put that $20k + whatever I could get for it into a 997.
Sorry, but never got the financial "wisdom" of putting another 20 grand into a car worth little more than that.