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Nope, definitely a ceramic hybrid bearing, not steel. I'll see if I can post some better photos. This was definitely not a stock bearing, much as people on this forum with vested interests might like it to be.
Nope, definitely a ceramic hybrid bearing, not steel. I'll see if I can post some better photos. This was definitely not a stock bearing, much as people on this forum with vested interests might like it to be.
The photo posted earlier was most certainly not a ceramic hybrid. It has spalling just like all worn stock bearings that are at stage 3 failure.
Ceramic ***** are never the color of what was posted in your original photo. Never.
No classic dual row has NEVER had a groove machined on the OD of the outer race for the internal wire lock. Not once. Not ever. Never.
The LN Bearing is rertained with a spiral lock that sits against the aft face of the bearing, and winds into the retention groove, therefore it does not need, or use the internal wire lock.
Post photos of the bearing flange as well as the bearing, and even better post a video with a newspaper headline with today’s date on it simultaneously along with the footage of the bearing, and the flange. Also, include the spiral lock that was retaining this in the IMS shaft in the footage.
What you may have is some sort of home brewed kit that someone came up with using a conventional bearing, telling you that it was an LN bearing. People lie.
FYI- Here’s a pic that was taken of a stock factory IMS Bearing that was at Stage 3 failure. This came from Chris Powell at Chris’ German Auto at least 5 years ago. Chris is a member of the National PCA Technical Committee and submitted this to usa for training purposes.
I have screen captured the entire slide from my M96 “101” Training session that includes this photo.
Now, does anything here look familiar in comparison with what the “plantiff” had posted earlier as an LN Bearing?
Below is a pic of an LN IMS Bearing that was posted elsewhere on Rennlist, and was not taken from any of our databases. This pic can be found in Google and liked here to Rennlist. Its a member posted photo.
See the color of the *****? See the composition of the cage? All LN bearings look like this, and have since day one. Nothing has ever looked like the bearing the “plantiff” posted... Well, nothing except a stock bearing thats at stage 3 failure.
There is no groove in the outer race. That's a shadow from the flash. The ***** are not steel. The difference between the hybrid bearing I removed and the skf all-steel bearing I replaced it with is pretty stark.
At the end of the day, the point of my first point was not to claim there is anything 'wrong' with LN bearings, but to suggest that anyone with the same symptoms as the OP (and me) with ferrous metal debris check the bearing first. Collect your own evidence in what is wrong with your car. Don't take the word of anyone who hasn't seen your bearing first hand, don't take the word of people on internet forums, including me and the many 'experts' here.
Cheers!
There is no groove in the outer race. That's a shadow from the flash. The ***** are not steel. The difference between the hybrid bearing I removed and the skf all-steel bearing I replaced it with is pretty stark.
At the end of the day, the point of my first point was not to claim there is anything 'wrong' with LN bearings, but to suggest that anyone with the same symptoms as the OP (and me) with ferrous metal debris check the bearing first. Collect your own evidence in what is wrong with your car. Don't take the word of anyone who hasn't seen your bearing first hand, don't take the word of people on internet forums, including me and the many 'experts' here.
Cheers!
Time for a video of these “non steel” *****.
Grab a dremel, or a disc grinder and cut the outer race in half. Doing this is easy. If you do not have a dremel that will do this, l will be happy to paypal you the funds to go purchase one for this comparison.
Once the outer race is cut in half, the ***** will be ejected. Grab a ball, and a magnet. See if the ***** removed from this supposed LN bearing are attracted to the magnet. Video this, and please post this for the overall benefit of the forum. When you are done, you’ll end up with a free dremel, so you have nothing to lose, and only something to gain.
When can you do this?
Happy to make a DIY video for you in case you can’t follow what l’m asking for... Matter of fact, l’ll make it this week’s featured technical video on the Rennvision Youtube channel! Heck, if you want we can have a “youtube Live” while you are dissecting the bearing. Always game for a round of fun. Whaddya say?
There is no groove in the outer race. That's a shadow from the flash. The ***** are not steel. The difference between the hybrid bearing I removed and the skf all-steel bearing I replaced it with is pretty stark.
At the end of the day, the point of my first point was not to claim there is anything 'wrong' with LN bearings, but to suggest that anyone with the same symptoms as the OP (and me) with ferrous metal debris check the bearing first. Collect your own evidence in what is wrong with your car. Don't take the word of anyone who hasn't seen your bearing first hand, don't take the word of people on internet forums, including me and the many 'experts' here.
Cheers!
Actually, it was pretty clear that you wanted to strongly suggest the failing bearing was and is a ceramic hybrid LN bearing and that it caused the metal races to deteriorate and shed metal into the engine. When Charles and Jake prove otherwise, you now backpedal your argument to “my first point was not to claim there is anything wrong with LN bearings”. You have no evidence or credibility in my opinion. You haven’t posted any clearer images or provided any substantial proof; yet, you continue to self incriminate yourself.
The correct spelling is prophet and if you are going to jump into a forum as a troll, try not to sound illiterate when attacking an expert.
Thank you for the spelling correction.
Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor
Everyone is so damned determined to censure Raby for just speaking the truth direct, all the while letting another clown off the hook for basically spreading lies in the forum. Thanks a lot Trent! If you're such a honorable Marine, tell me why in the world did you come to the forum and setup an account just to blast him? Why not grow some and call him on the phone and speak man-to-man? If you'd implement the fortitude that was taught to you in basic training, you'd know very well the right thing to do. I'm sure he'd love to give you a piece of his mind. But you don't, cause you'd rather coward behind your computer and throw digital spit *****. Some of us value the free information the experts are willingly give out on the forums. Much better than giving tithes to the church of the holy Porsche barista that's for sure.
I'm not trying to censor anyone, just posting that someone posted evidence of a bearing failure that didn't disparage anyone directly and he/she was attacked and claimed a liar by someone that makes money by building engines for a living.There was actual evidence posted and the OP was attacked because an engine builder disagreed with them. It doesn't matter what you agree or disagree on, what matters are the facts. The customer had their IMS bearing replaced with a ceramic IMS bearing. The fact that the customer posted that their bearing had failed shouldn't mean that they're automatically wrong. Production runs go wrong, and sometimes bearings fail. Yet there's an engine builder here who has taken personal offense to this bearing failure and has, a result of this post, lashed out at current and potential customers.There are no reasonable or logical responses presented by Flat6Industries that would disparage the claims by user CBR944 of a failed ceramic bearing. The sole claim is "You are wrong becuase I have experience, and I have seen a failed ceramic bearing and it doesn't look like that."
In regards to your very personal defamatory post, you personally have never been to recruit training at either of the MCRD's and if you did you wouldn't bring it up like it's some defining feature of military service. The fact that you're in, or have been in, the military doesn't mean you have free reign to be rude to anyone that opposes you. I'm an active duty Marine and I'll provide any proof requested of that. If Jake Raby can provide a DD214 with his full legal name and a favorable characterization of service on it, I'll drive my 911 down to his shop and give it to him.
I read a thread about something and encountered people being incredibly rude a poster for no reason other than the status quo. It's time to change the status quo.
I'm not trying to censor anyone, just posting that someone posted evidence of a bearing failure that didn't disparage anyone directly and he/she was attacked and claimed a liar by someone that makes money by building engines for a living.There was actual evidence posted and the OP was attacked because an engine builder disagreed with them. It doesn't matter what you agree or disagree on, what matters are the facts. The customer had their IMS bearing replaced with a ceramic IMS bearing. The fact that the customer posted that their bearing had failed shouldn't mean that they're automatically wrong. Production runs go wrong, and sometimes bearings fail. Yet there's an engine builder here who has taken personal offense to this bearing failure and has, a result of this post, lashed out at current and potential customers.There are no reasonable or logical responses presented by Flat6Industries that would disparage the claims by user CBR944 of a failed ceramic bearing. The sole claim is "You are wrong becuase I have experience, and I have seen a failed ceramic bearing and it doesn't look like that."
In regards to your very personal defamatory post, you personally have never been to recruit training at either of the MCRD's and if you did you wouldn't bring it up like it's some defining feature of military service. The fact that you're in, or have been in, the military doesn't mean you have free reign to be rude to anyone that opposes you. I'm an active duty Marine and I'll provide any proof requested of that. If Jake Raby can provide a DD214 with his full legal name and a favorable characterization of service on it, I'll drive my 911 down to his shop and give it to him.
I read a thread about something and encountered people being incredibly rude a poster for no reason other than the status quo. It's time to change the status quo.
First of all, it’s censure, not censor. Two totally different meanings. You're also getting the OP confused with CBR944. The OP took Raby’s advice and now is a happier 996 owner because of it. CBR944 just came into the thread to just shake things up after closure had been reached. Until he proves himself with solid evidence, he’s lying or greatly misguided in my book. That’s based on what I’ve witnessed in this thread. At first, I tried hard to see his side, but after multiple attempts to get questions answered only get ignored, I knew I smelled a rat. And, why you signed up to just criticize Raby’s demeanor is beyond me. It seems your disdain for Raby could’ve been better handled in a PM or phone call.
Bearing hostage photo No groove in outer race ***** are dark grey
I've probably posted images which are too large, but here's the first ever "hostage photo" of a ball bearing, just to show that I do have the bearing... and it will be unharmed. Unfortunately I can't provide proof of life. It's inanimate.
On the last photo you can see a discoloured part of the inner race. I think this was the section that was wearing the fastest (and heating up from friction).
Enjoy!!
Thank you for posting these photos.
Where's the wear on the ***** that matches your original post? I do not see anything wrong with the ***** of this bearing in these posted photos.
This bearing that you have most recently posted is a ceramic hybrid, but it does not match the previous photos. I can also tell that it is an LN bearing from the composition of the bearing.
Your previous complaint was clearly that the ***** were wearing, and you specifically called out this in post 242 of this thread as quoted below:
As an interesting aside, my bearing, which I suspect had been deteriorating from that failed ceramic ball for at least 6,000 miles, showed no wear at all in the adjacent unaffected race. It therefore seemed surprising to me that Jake would have rushed in with his conclusion that the LNE bearing was wearing out due to some (almost certainly very low) amount of small particles from the original failed bearing circulating in the oil from the original bearing job – even before the bearing was inspected. My (again, limited) experience showed that metallic debris in the oil (right inside the bearing in fact) doesn’t necessarily damage a bearing race like a pitted hard ceramic ball can!
Its pretty clear to me that you have more than one bearing, or that you at least have (and posted) photos of more than one bearing.
Please post photos of the supposed "pitted ceramic ball" that match the photo posted in post 242. That was a crappy photo, but the typical wear thats associated with a conventional ball bearing was very evident on those *****.
If the bearing is not going to be reused, go ahead and chop it in half and get some better pics of the "worn *****" for us.
Debris laden oil is what creates worn races, the running clearances are so tight that debris laden oil enters the raceways and something has to give, and it won't be the *****. The smaller the debris, the easier it is suspended in the oil, and the more harmful it is, big pieces won't ever "go there".
Glad to see that we are getting somewhere, but the equation is still missing a few elements.
I’ve attached below a photo (not the best quality, sorry!) of my still intact LNE IMS bearing, showing one ball with surface pitting and cracks. The purpose of my post wasn’t to dispute that the original shop which did the OP’s IMS bearing replacement possibly performed a poor job, but to point out that newly-appearing debris may be entirely unconnected with an earlier bearing job – that is, it can be the quality of the bearing which is at fault, not necessarily the quality of the past job. No groove in outer race
11-17-2018, 02:50 PM
