Gator996

Thank you sir!

KrazyK

Man I am ever gald that issue is settled once and for all. They should offer a group buy on JG oil.

Flat6 Innovations

Volume buys don't save any money on a product like this.. Every time I have ran a special on anything I have regretted it. Thats why you never see discounts or incentives on any of my products or engines.

perryinva

Sensible advice and reasons. Thank you.

Ubermensch

Is the primary distinction between track and street use the temperature that the oil sees? Obviously load factors in as well, but if you're able to reduce operating temperatures of the oil does it buy you any margin for the use of DT40 at the track? Unless I'm using a trailer to bring the car to the track I'm need to change oil at the track on a regular basis...If an oil cooler could minimize the possibility of problems it might be a potential compromise.

Flat6 Innovations

No, street oils are very poor performers in the M96 engine on track. DT 40 was not ever considered as a race oil. DT40 should not be utilized on the track, AX or otherwise.

Tbred911

So then why does LNEngineering post this exact phrase on their website concerning DT40!!!

In development for several years, starting February 2012 we will now offer DT40, a high zinc formulation for modern European Sports Cars in a 5w40 viscosity, suitable for both street and track use superior to any oil LN Engineering has previously used or recommended and has been thoroughly tested by Flat 6 Innovations and Jake Raby, coinciding with their joint development of the M96 and M97 engine platform.

source:
http://www.lnengineering.com/joegibbsracingoils.html
2nd paragraph

Flat6 Innovations

Charles and I just talked about this last week and that phrase will be removed. I honestly thought that he already removed it.

Tbred911

!! that's why I bought DT40 oil to begin with - for track sessions.. based on that advertisement...

looks like I'm going back to Castrol 5W50 - UOAs were always good with that oil - and oil pressure was decent as well.

who sells XP-9?

Steve's MLC

Thanks Jake. I never thought about putting the slightly used DT-40 back into the car after track. That makes the cost more palatable.

And thanks for the links Ubermensch.

Flat6 Innovations

It is a hassle, but any street oil requires the same regimen and any true race oil has no preservation properties and no lifespan.

Tbred911

Thx for misinforming the whole RENNLIST community over the last 2 years!!! I guess everybody has to make a buck somehow.

Flat6 Innovations

I said that we never designed the oil to be a race oil. I did not say that it has led to issues on the track, because it hasn't. People have used it on the track, but those are not my purchasers. The oil is just as effective on the track as most any other readily available street oil. Lots have people have used it on the track with no issues, but it simply was not specifically developed for the track, like XP-9 or even XP-5.

Street oils perform best below their VI ratings that are measured at 212F. Just because it works on the track doesn't mean that it is optimized for the track. Street tires work on the track, but slicks are much better but don't last as long, right? The same goes with this oil. The additive packages must be friendly to 5K mile service intervals and be compliant with O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Finding the sweet spot for these characteristics of the oil was a bit of a challenge.

We have employed DT40 on the track in our own cars and that dates back to 2008 and I had zero issues in doing so, but again- it is not designed for that service.

The DT40 has not even been available to the public for two years! It became available to the public in March of 2012. Before that you had to buy my engine to purchase it and it had to come directly from us.

As far as making a buck off it, I don't even sell it to anyone other than our engine purchasers. Today Summit, Jegs and other retailers sell it and none of that goes into my pocket, and I don't care.

I don't believe that street oils have a place in the M96 engine on-track based on my direct experience. When I said that it shouldn't even be used once on track I was generalizing all street oils, not just DT40.

nick49

As a former motorcycle roadracer and engine builder I always ran Kendall 10w40 GT-1, the original formula which is now sold as Brad Penn. I was in contact with engineers at Kendall and they gave me a lot of recommendations, most of which were contrary to street knowledge. The GT-1 worked on the Salt Flats to top speed runs and nearly a decade of Superbike and Supersport racing in sprint races and 4 and 6 hour endurance races. The 10-40 GT-1 was labeled an automotive oil suitable for street, high performance, turbo and competition uses. I did frequent tear downs and never saw any indication of any oil related failure. The film strength of the Kendall oil was incredible as you would have to scrub the parts in the solvent tank to get the oil off.

So, my question is what's the difference between a racing oil and street oil in JG?

Byprodriver

Because it's true? I'm guessing?