Joe Gibbs DT40?
#31
Walter, thanks for saving me some typing.
Jake, I was referring to the EOT listed above in the chart. For each characteristic you list an initial value and a final value at the end of test. I was just asking how long the test period was to better understand when these changes were taking place. Does the viscosity drop that much after 1 hour of operation, 1000 hours of operation, etc? Thanks!
Krazy, believe it or not, some people like to understand topics before they comment on them. I know it's not common on most forums these days. People like to just throw their opinions out without any basis or support. I know it's much easier to listen to an expert and then repeat what they said, but that's not how actual engineering works. How do you think experts become experts? Do you think Jake just took someone's word for what works, or did he work his way through the problem either by asking questions, reading about the subject, or by doing the hands on work to answer the questions that didn't have easy answers?
Jake, I was referring to the EOT listed above in the chart. For each characteristic you list an initial value and a final value at the end of test. I was just asking how long the test period was to better understand when these changes were taking place. Does the viscosity drop that much after 1 hour of operation, 1000 hours of operation, etc? Thanks!
Krazy, believe it or not, some people like to understand topics before they comment on them. I know it's not common on most forums these days. People like to just throw their opinions out without any basis or support. I know it's much easier to listen to an expert and then repeat what they said, but that's not how actual engineering works. How do you think experts become experts? Do you think Jake just took someone's word for what works, or did he work his way through the problem either by asking questions, reading about the subject, or by doing the hands on work to answer the questions that didn't have easy answers?
#33
Note that I said that without being asked. Thats the difference that you won't generally find. We know what does work and more importantly we know what doesn't work and why.
If you buy the oil from me, or from LN you will be told the fact about track service. If you buy it from a generic source you will not, which means getting what you pay for has a different definition than most believe.
Will DT40 work on the track? It has for us. Was DT40 designed for track service at all, absolutely not. Our goals for this flavor of oil did not include track duty at all. For the track, XP9 is exceptional and is a true RACE oil in every way, able to maintain VI @ temperatures north of 280*F sustained. When your street car goes to the track, it becomes a race car and it requires a race oil.
Some may argue, few hold the data.
If you buy the oil from me, or from LN you will be told the fact about track service. If you buy it from a generic source you will not, which means getting what you pay for has a different definition than most believe.
Will DT40 work on the track? It has for us. Was DT40 designed for track service at all, absolutely not. Our goals for this flavor of oil did not include track duty at all. For the track, XP9 is exceptional and is a true RACE oil in every way, able to maintain VI @ temperatures north of 280*F sustained. When your street car goes to the track, it becomes a race car and it requires a race oil.
Some may argue, few hold the data.
#34
Drifting
Thread Starter
I am actually planning on making this change this winter, I will be using the break-in oil, JG advised me just to warm up the engine with it and drive around the block a couple of times and than put in the DT-40.
I am following his advice as well. This thread is full of FREE info that may have prevented many failures for M96 owners and the cost isnt much more than the Mobil 1 0-40W crap oil many are addicted to.
#35
Drifting
Thread Starter
Do you think Jake just took someone's word for what works, or did he work his way through the problem either by asking questions, reading about the subject, or by doing the hands on work to answer the questions that didn't have easy answers?
Walter, great info from you as well. I read all the opinions I can then try to make an informed decision.
#36
Skepticisms aside, the common sense in me says engines have survived this long using mainstream oils and the mainstream oil companies have a lot more research resources(as well as bean counters) to provide a suitable compromise. There's been boutique oil companies such as Redline and Amsoil for those that don't want to compromise. Many 996 owners have done just fine this far with various oils from both mainstream and boutique companies. There's been many race teams that have used off the shelf oils in racing many times.
Is the m96/m97 THAT fragile and special than other motors, even comparing other boxer motors like Subaru's to really obsess and worry over a certain oil?
I understand the reasons why Jake wants to use the oil in his motors however, does it make sense to use something like this in used cars with some mileage on them?
Is there going to be any difference long term?
What quantitative value is out there for using this oil. If you took 2 brand new daily driver cars over the course of a few years with 2 different oils and ran it the same mileage with the same driving styles, environment, OCI's and such and at the end, did a complete engine breakdown, it would be interesting to see how much of a difference in wear and reliability there really was. That to me is a more quantifiable test.
Are we really going to be driving our cars 1 million miles or keep it forever?
996's for me isn't like owning a Bugatti Veyron or anything like that so personally for me, I can't see getting into the nitty gritty of something like bickering over oil to this degree.
I wonder if people make a big deal on the health forums about Brita, Pur, Zero Water, etc..
It's like the people that want the best n2 rated Michelins that don't track it and rarely drive or know how to drive even remotely close to or above 7/10's and blast their stereo and have mega dollar coilover systems...Sorry if I offended anyone.
Jake,
Can you tell me if the DT40 oil usage is a requirement on your engines in maintaining or keeping a valid warranty? Just curious is all.
Is the m96/m97 THAT fragile and special than other motors, even comparing other boxer motors like Subaru's to really obsess and worry over a certain oil?
I understand the reasons why Jake wants to use the oil in his motors however, does it make sense to use something like this in used cars with some mileage on them?
Is there going to be any difference long term?
What quantitative value is out there for using this oil. If you took 2 brand new daily driver cars over the course of a few years with 2 different oils and ran it the same mileage with the same driving styles, environment, OCI's and such and at the end, did a complete engine breakdown, it would be interesting to see how much of a difference in wear and reliability there really was. That to me is a more quantifiable test.
Are we really going to be driving our cars 1 million miles or keep it forever?
996's for me isn't like owning a Bugatti Veyron or anything like that so personally for me, I can't see getting into the nitty gritty of something like bickering over oil to this degree.
I wonder if people make a big deal on the health forums about Brita, Pur, Zero Water, etc..
It's like the people that want the best n2 rated Michelins that don't track it and rarely drive or know how to drive even remotely close to or above 7/10's and blast their stereo and have mega dollar coilover systems...Sorry if I offended anyone.
Jake,
Can you tell me if the DT40 oil usage is a requirement on your engines in maintaining or keeping a valid warranty? Just curious is all.
#37
Drifting
Thread Starter
996's for me isn't like owning a Bugatti Veyron or anything like that so personally for me,
For me, owning the 996 is better than owning the Bug!
#38
#40
Here is your full post, not sure how I took it out of context. It still states that the Mobil 1 0-4W is crap oil.
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peterp (01-06-2020)
#45
I kinda find it ironic that Joe Gibbs oil, a division of Joe Gibbs Racing of Nascar is developing oil for European cars.
Once I see actual professional european race teams use it quite regularly, I'll just think of this as another Royal Purple. I'm not saying it isn't a great oil but just not enough to getting me to switch.
VAC Motorsports that helped develop it had this to say:
It would be interesting to see what the long term ramifications are on the cats and O2 sensors, especially on our cars where it's even closer to the exhaust manifolds.
Once I see actual professional european race teams use it quite regularly, I'll just think of this as another Royal Purple. I'm not saying it isn't a great oil but just not enough to getting me to switch.
VAC Motorsports that helped develop it had this to say:
VAC Pro Tips:
-Keep in mind, while this oil is great for your engine, this oil does not meet current API for gasoline emissions systems. It is not a full racing oil, however It may very slightly reduce the life of catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
-If your tracked engine sees sustained temps over 265*F on track, then we recommend a more adequate oil cooler, and possibly 50wt oil as these temps will thin oil away from ideal valve train behavior in M50 and S50us motors.
-Keep in mind, while this oil is great for your engine, this oil does not meet current API for gasoline emissions systems. It is not a full racing oil, however It may very slightly reduce the life of catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
-If your tracked engine sees sustained temps over 265*F on track, then we recommend a more adequate oil cooler, and possibly 50wt oil as these temps will thin oil away from ideal valve train behavior in M50 and S50us motors.