Ubermensch

Walter, thanks for saving me some typing.

Jake, I was referring to the EOT listed above in the chart. For each characteristic you list an initial value and a final value at the end of test. I was just asking how long the test period was to better understand when these changes were taking place. Does the viscosity drop that much after 1 hour of operation, 1000 hours of operation, etc? Thanks!

Krazy, believe it or not, some people like to understand topics before they comment on them. I know it's not common on most forums these days. People like to just throw their opinions out without any basis or support. I know it's much easier to listen to an expert and then repeat what they said, but that's not how actual engineering works. How do you think experts become experts? Do you think Jake just took someone's word for what works, or did he work his way through the problem either by asking questions, reading about the subject, or by doing the hands on work to answer the questions that didn't have easy answers?

Flat6 Innovations

Great. With that said I have a busy next couple of days. I am done here for now.

WalterRohrl

Exactly. THAT is the reason for asking the questions. Jake, you mentioned the track aspect without being asked. It is conceivable that there are OTHER aspects to the oil that you have not yet shared without being asked (which would be normal and perfectly understandable). I assume that when you repair or service someone's car they are asked how they use their car. The track junkie's car may get different fluids compared to the guy that enjoys a spirited drive every now and then compared to the guy who only drives it to church on Sundays when it's over 70 degrees out and never exceeds the speed limit etc. DT40 was apparently developed with the M96 in mind. That does not necessarily mean that for EVERY M96 engine it is the BEST option out there in EVERY situation. Thus the quest for data etc. I do share your apparent opinion that not everyone out here in internet land has the ability to make the best decision based on a few graphs/chart/statements and that many just regurgitate whatever snippet of information they retained from the last oil thread without any context or deeper knowledge. The average person is probably fine with going with the manufacturer recommended fluids, changing them at appropriate intervals and will most likely not see a catastrophic event due to that decision. You've stated yourself that there are several potential failure modes with this engine, oil is one of them, the bearing possibly another. The majority of engines, however, don't have any issues. There are thousands of these engines out there with drivers that aren't on this forum or have never even heard of this forum. Not every one of their engines is going to expire. There is very likely a greater percentage of people who have HAD issues on THIS forum than in the general owner population. If you have a problem, often you look to the internet and forums such as this one to help solve it. if you never have an issue, often you have no reason to look for a forum.

KrazyK

X2
I am following his advice as well. This thread is full of FREE info that may have prevented many failures for M96 owners and the cost isnt much more than the Mobil 1 0-40W crap oil many are addicted to.

KrazyK

Shawn, I think I posted a similar comment about his research. Have nothing but respect and gratefulness for the mans work and contribution. My comments were directed at the ones who refuse to believe him.

Walter, great info from you as well. I read all the opinions I can then try to make an informed decision.

alpine003

Skepticisms aside, the common sense in me says engines have survived this long using mainstream oils and the mainstream oil companies have a lot more research resources(as well as bean counters) to provide a suitable compromise. There's been boutique oil companies such as Redline and Amsoil for those that don't want to compromise. Many 996 owners have done just fine this far with various oils from both mainstream and boutique companies. There's been many race teams that have used off the shelf oils in racing many times.

Is the m96/m97 THAT fragile and special than other motors, even comparing other boxer motors like Subaru's to really obsess and worry over a certain oil?

I understand the reasons why Jake wants to use the oil in his motors however, does it make sense to use something like this in used cars with some mileage on them?

Is there going to be any difference long term?

What quantitative value is out there for using this oil. If you took 2 brand new daily driver cars over the course of a few years with 2 different oils and ran it the same mileage with the same driving styles, environment, OCI's and such and at the end, did a complete engine breakdown, it would be interesting to see how much of a difference in wear and reliability there really was. That to me is a more quantifiable test.

Are we really going to be driving our cars 1 million miles or keep it forever?

996's for me isn't like owning a Bugatti Veyron or anything like that so personally for me, I can't see getting into the nitty gritty of something like bickering over oil to this degree.

I wonder if people make a big deal on the health forums about Brita, Pur, Zero Water, etc..

It's like the people that want the best n2 rated Michelins that don't track it and rarely drive or know how to drive even remotely close to or above 7/10's and blast their stereo and have mega dollar coilover systems...Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jake,
Can you tell me if the DT40 oil usage is a requirement on your engines in maintaining or keeping a valid warranty? Just curious is all.

KrazyK

Since money is no object, you wont mind spending the money for JG oil and shorter change intervals? Just kidding.

For me, owning the 996 is better than owning the Bug!

WalterRohrl

That's a pretty bold statement. I don't think I have seen too many (any) threads that absolutely lay the verifiable blame of failure on correct usage of that oil over any other.

KrazyK

Walter you took that out of context.

WalterRohrl

Here is your full post, not sure how I took it out of context. It still states that the Mobil 1 0-4W is crap oil.

KrazyK

I meant not just the one post. It was relevant to the entire thread but still just an opinion. Read JR's many above it.

RallyJon

Here's my first UOA of the DT40. Was Motul 8100 since 49k and 300V before that.

mmahon04

Thanks for posting this Jon.

KrazyK

+1, thank you!

alpine003

I kinda find it ironic that Joe Gibbs oil, a division of Joe Gibbs Racing of Nascar is developing oil for European cars.

Once I see actual professional european race teams use it quite regularly, I'll just think of this as another Royal Purple. I'm not saying it isn't a great oil but just not enough to getting me to switch.

VAC Motorsports that helped develop it had this to say:
It would be interesting to see what the long term ramifications are on the cats and O2 sensors, especially on our cars where it's even closer to the exhaust manifolds.