Joe Gibbs DT40?
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
Come on guys. There's some serious kool aid drinking going on here. I agree with mmahon. Show me some stats and some rationale and you have another customer.
A tremendous amount of FREE knowledge about YOUR car. All of which he developed by hands on real research not some round table pansy discussion bench racer group.
I think I will use what he knows and take care of my M96 engine to the best of my abilities. I wish I could attend one of his seminars but I cant afford it.
Jake, you have the patience of a saint with some of the stupid questions and ungrateful comments. Please dont hold them against the rest of us.
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Byprodriver (01-05-2020)
#18
Instructor
Krazy, I've actually read just about every word on Jake's website and have emailed him several questions which he was nice enough to answer personally within a day of my asking.
As you know I'm brand new to Porsche ownership and I am thirsty for knowledge. I am here to learn. Saying "Because Jake said so" does nothing for my learning.
As you know I'm brand new to Porsche ownership and I am thirsty for knowledge. I am here to learn. Saying "Because Jake said so" does nothing for my learning.
#20
Burning Brakes
DT40 sounds good. I wonder if Jake thinks it's worth putting it in an engine with some miles on it, that shows no issues, or if because it is superior if the DT40 can stay in a car for 2 years if it has under 5k miles on it. For me, the 3k oil change mileage number has been moot, as due to my work/life schedule, I never put on 3k a year on my 996, anyway, and change it once a year. Last 2 changes were Castrol 5-40 Syntec, before that was Mobil 1 0-40, with 2 of the qts 15-50. I installed the IMSG, pulled the pan, was spotless in side a year ago, & always ran the LNE magnetic drain plug and spin on adapter with Mobil 1 filter since I got the car at 38k miles in '08 (now at 49k). I never look at what I call "familiar" cost, just total cost. Or I never would have a few months ago, pre-emptively replaced a perfectly working water pump, AOS, T-stat, coolant cap, or hose. Change a $300 water pump before it needs it is a waste? No, spend $300 to preserve the cooling system, engine and TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I look at it as an engineer, and engineers believe in preventative maintenance. So if DT40 is $11 a qt and we need 10 qts its $110 vs $70 for normal oil (though I did just buy 12 qts of the Castrol 5-40 Syntec for only $40) so if I am preserving the engine for a difference of less than a tank of gas, it's not really a discussion, I'd do it. But engineers also don't just do things "because", there has to be some rationale. So if I can get 2 years and 5k miles from DT40 vs 1 year and under 3k miles on Castrol, it is a real no brainer from every aspect. Just saying and asking...thanks for your support, Jake.
#21
Former Vendor
Sorry Steve but maybe you dont realize who your talking about. Please take the time to read ALL the articles about JR and his work, watch his videos, then read some more.
A tremendous amount of FREE knowledge about YOUR car. All of which he developed by hands on real research not some round table pansy discussion bench racer group.
I think I will use what he knows and take care of my M96 engine to the best of my abilities. I wish I could attend one of his seminars but I cant afford it.
Jake, you have the patience of a saint with some of the stupid questions and ungrateful comments. Please dont hold them against the rest of us.
A tremendous amount of FREE knowledge about YOUR car. All of which he developed by hands on real research not some round table pansy discussion bench racer group.
I think I will use what he knows and take care of my M96 engine to the best of my abilities. I wish I could attend one of his seminars but I cant afford it.
Jake, you have the patience of a saint with some of the stupid questions and ungrateful comments. Please dont hold them against the rest of us.
All of us put our pants on one leg at a time, I am just extremely good at what I do because I love it so much and know nothing else. Its a life, not a job.
I emailed Lake Speed to see what data I can share and he is going to send me a non-confidential UPOA of DT 40 tomorrow. Until then here are the HTHS results between DT 40 and 10/40 M1. Aside from elemental analysis this High Temperature High Shear test is how we rate an oil's ability to remain effective under the conditions that the M96 sees daily as the engines have inherently high oil temperatures, almost always greater than that of the standard 212*F API standard for viscosity measurement.
There is much more to "grading" an oil than most people would ever know and you won't read it online. The parrots don't understand it.
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
Seriously, would it make sense to risk a 20K engine by using a 2 year oil change interval? You cant possibly think this is a good idea?
2 oil changes per year $100 or less each
VS.
1 destroyed M96 engine $20,000
Simple math to me.
2 oil changes per year $100 or less each
VS.
1 destroyed M96 engine $20,000
Simple math to me.
#23
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Considering it is a UOA though, are the results based on a sample drawn from the M96?
Care to share, or point me in a direction (I'm not book averse either )?
#24
Jake, thanks for the information on the oil. Many of us come from science and engineering backgrounds, so like you, we like to have data to base our decisions on. Would you mind clarifying what the test duration was (EOT)?
-Shawn
-Shawn
#25
Former Vendor
Seriously, would it make sense to risk a 20K engine by using a 2 year oil change interval? You cant possibly think this is a good idea?
2 oil changes per year $100 or less each
VS.
1 destroyed M96 engine $20,000
Simple math to me.
2 oil changes per year $100 or less each
VS.
1 destroyed M96 engine $20,000
Simple math to me.
Thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing the UOA results; this should cover my questions about the additive pack and TBN numbers.
Considering it is a UOA though, are the results based on a sample drawn from the M96?
Care to share, or point me in a direction (I'm not book averse either )?
We are now working with Gibbs on fuel stabilization products with cause and effect on engine tuning, fuel system components and related items. This is to support an effort to lessen the harmful effects of ethanol enriched fuels on modern and vintage vehicles alike.
Would you mind clarifying what the test duration was (EOT)?
Please don't inflict paralysis from analysis on this topic.
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sometimes the "engineer" and "analyst" types tend to overcomplicate an issue rather than just accept the fact that common sense is usually the right path.
Unfortunately I have seen this many times in my career where "round table theorists" come up with what they think are brilliant hypotheses without ever considering how these edicts can be implemented by the persons they are actually directed to or burdened upon.
In summary, they tend to overthink an issue while accomplishing nothing until the "hands on guy" calls and says "never mind, its fixed". You seem like the latter to me. I find it very funny that these guys "dont have time to change their own oil" but have lots of time to rehash research already done by you.
I immediately got what you said. Better adhesion and less shear under extreme conditions. For me, case closed. Im switching to JG DT40 and adhering to my what some call frequent change intervals. Thanks again for your patience.
Unfortunately I have seen this many times in my career where "round table theorists" come up with what they think are brilliant hypotheses without ever considering how these edicts can be implemented by the persons they are actually directed to or burdened upon.
In summary, they tend to overthink an issue while accomplishing nothing until the "hands on guy" calls and says "never mind, its fixed". You seem like the latter to me. I find it very funny that these guys "dont have time to change their own oil" but have lots of time to rehash research already done by you.
I immediately got what you said. Better adhesion and less shear under extreme conditions. For me, case closed. Im switching to JG DT40 and adhering to my what some call frequent change intervals. Thanks again for your patience.
#27
Former Vendor
Im switching to JG DT40 and adhering to my what some call frequent change intervals.
DT40 is NOT designed to be utilized for on-track activities, it is a street oil just like any other and it must maintain its ability to hold up for 5K mile service intervals. All of my engines that see even one day of track service utilize XP-9 and that product is only good for 750 miles before the additive packages are depleted.
So, in other words don't track your car on DT-40.
Thanks again for your patience.
#28
The last two posts illustrate perfectly the reason why the "armchair experts" ask for more information before making a change due to a source on the internet, however well respected and knowledgable that source appears to be.
I am NOT slagging Jake, but I AM saying that the questions make perfect sense to ask.
Lots of us here track their cars. KrazyK, I know you don't but if you did and if you had just run out and bought the oil based on Jake's previous posts in this thread (as you apparently did), Jake's last post would have had you sitting there with a case of oil that would now be the wrong thing to use for your engine.
The point is that just because someone recommends something you cannot just take it at face value unless you examine ALL of the parameters that apply to the context. Jake may run DT40 in all the engines that he builds....UNLESS that engine is for track duty - then he appears to recommend something else.
I am NOT slagging Jake, but I AM saying that the questions make perfect sense to ask.
Lots of us here track their cars. KrazyK, I know you don't but if you did and if you had just run out and bought the oil based on Jake's previous posts in this thread (as you apparently did), Jake's last post would have had you sitting there with a case of oil that would now be the wrong thing to use for your engine.
The point is that just because someone recommends something you cannot just take it at face value unless you examine ALL of the parameters that apply to the context. Jake may run DT40 in all the engines that he builds....UNLESS that engine is for track duty - then he appears to recommend something else.
#29
Former Vendor
bought the oil based on Jake's previous posts in this thread (as you apparently did), Jake's last post would have had you sitting there with a case of oil that would now be the wrong thing to use for your engine.
If you buy the oil from me, or from LN you will be told the fact about track service. If you buy it from a generic source you will not, which means getting what you pay for has a different definition than most believe.
Will DT40 work on the track? It has for us. Was DT40 designed for track service at all, absolutely not. Our goals for this flavor of oil did not include track duty at all. For the track, XP9 is exceptional and is a true RACE oil in every way, able to maintain VI @ temperatures north of 280*F sustained. When your street car goes to the track, it becomes a race car and it requires a race oil.
Some may argue, few hold the data.
#30
Instructor
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oyster Bay, NY
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I am actually planning on making this change this winter, I will be using the break-in oil, JG advised me just to warm up the engine with it and drive around the block a couple of times and than put in the DT-40.