perryinva

Sorry Wellard, I think you are much more guilty of letting you personal distaste for the pervasive IMS threads, color the intensity and quantity of posts in this thread. If people "panic and buy into it" as you state, it is because many can NOT afford to just ignore "this very low probability event and move on". If it is such a minor possibility, then why don't you offer to pay for anyones engine that toasts due to an IMS? The ONLY reason the number of IMS posts is "way out of whack", is because it IS so effing expensive a failure. Why is that so hard to grasp. NO ONE cares about how your 99 had a spark plug tube leak fixed and that your car was declared in amazing condition. How does that in any way relate to the other hundreds of thousands of 996s out there, and their IMS conditions? I did not read one bit of scaremongering in Jakes original post, he simply stated a warning of a possibility based on reading a single post. The OP stated he has checked the skip plate before and it hs been clean, and that now "there is oil residue all over the transmission" and "under the car". Where do YOU read that it is a possible spark plug tube leak from THAT? WTF? We've all seen the posts and pics of failed bearings, so regardless of the probability, it is real. I didn't know there was such a thing as too much information or caution. Your self righteousness, with multiple posts about it, is to me, more distasteful than Jakes supposed scaremongering in 2 short, informative posts. We all don't live on this forum with thousands of posts, and have been reading them all for the past 6 or 7 years, so for those of us that have a life, that only read occasionally, it's helpful to come across any information that is helpful, when we do. My local P car dealer and a very well respected P-car indie here, have both seen IMS failures. So let me see, a dealer that says everything is great with the cars we sell, never seen a problem, or one that admits there have been issues, which we all know exist....hmmm who to believe...who to believe....who's in denial here......

I especially like the advice of the poster that says "just drive it like you stole it" and everything will be fine...cause that sure as heck fixes oil leaks, in my experience.

I didn't realize you were the content moderator.

Wellardmac

You are 100% correct that I and many others are tired of IMS threads - read any one of them and they all go the same way. They're driven by fear and emotion, rather than logic. As I said, it's a very low probability event, but if you can't handle the probability and cost, then you should move on if the worry causes you churn. As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, because sitting around bitching and moaning is not productive.

The reason for mentioning alternate causes of oil leaks is that not all oil leaks are IMS or RMS related and people forget that. Instead, the fear kicks in and people jump to irrational conclusions. The OP has not yet given enough information for anyone to diagnose the issue, so until that happens, EVERYONE in this thread is jumping to conclusions. If you don't like my posts, then that's your prerogative, but all I'm doing here is injecting that we do not have enough information for a diagnosis and that anyone that jumps to the conclusion of an IMS issue is jumping the gun.

jordanturbo

When I did my clutch I inspected my rear main seal which wasn't leaking but replaced it anyways since I had the part and would only add and extra few minutes to the job. same went for the IMS after pulling everything apart for inspection and some of the parts not being reusable, I figured I might as well replace everything even though my IMS bearing was fine (no metal in filter or magnetic drain plug) no leaking oil, no abnormal wear marks on the bearing etc.

Philip P

These are the best pictures I could manage laying on the ground with my iPhone. Hope this is enough info.

There is no oil leaking from the top of anything. It is concentrated to this area. Also, the only collected oil where it drips can be seen in all three pictures. The oil also collects at the drain plug. But that could be because of my skid plate.

Let me know what you guys think!

perryinva

I agree with Wellards last post 100%. Options and suggestions are helpful and informative. I have no problem personally with living with my car and the IMS. It's a car. And I've read the vast majority of IMS (and RMS, Mobil Oil, Crappy Stereo, clunking suspention, D-chunk, AOS, Coolant expansion tank, failed motor mounts, etc, etc common, oft complained posts) threads, and if it is repetitve or not helpful, I skip over it and move on. It's a forum. 75%BS 25% Usefulness. And for the record, I almost always agree with your posts, and find your contributions very helpful and informative. As I do Jakes. I'd suggest the same thing to you, if you don't like IMS posts, then skip'em.

For the OP, it looks like it actually could be an RMS leak from the pics, LOL. (Not at your misfortune, but after all this...) That the ARB at the cross member is so wet with oil, when (how earlier?) it was checked and all dry, means it's a fair drip. I can see that your IMS Guardian wire is covered with oil, so it's obviously happened since you installed it. When was that?

Wellardmac

Thanks! Mostly I ignore the scaremongering threads, as they're unproductive and just serve for people to reinforce their own opinions, rather than be guided by data and more damagingly, serve to hurt the reputation of the cars we love. This particular one set me off because of opinions that were being banded around without data or probing for data.

Now, with regard to the photos, from what I can see, I would agree that this appears to be an RMS leak. How fast is it dumping out oil? How much can you collect in a pan each day? A few drops, or a puddle? I wouldn't worry about weeping, or a few drops, but if you're dumping oil, then you might want to think about doing something sooner, rather than later. Not a biggie - mostly annoying.

Philip P

I'm not sure how long its been leaking but I installed my IMS Guardian about 7 months ago and there was no leaks at all.

Neotorque

First, a giant +1 to Capt. Obvious.

Second, this has become one of my favorite IMS threads - not because of the OP's situation of course - but because it is one of the few out there where people seem to actually be applying some degree of logic and statistical rigor, as opposed to the usual response, which is more or less "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"

As a relatively new Porsche owner (about a year), I was really excited to become a part of this forum because I thought it would be a great place to share stories about how much we enjoy these cars. Instead, I can barely get through a day without hearing that my M96 engine -- the engine that powers several cars on Consumer Reports most reliable list -- is a ticking time bomb. Such nonsense, and yet it can't help but take away from my ability to enjoy my car (even though it's under a full warranty).

Sorry to hijack, OP. Good luck with your situation. Hope it is nothing serious. You have a beautiful car and I hope you're back to enjoying it soon!

Ben_C

This may be true - but a sudden oil leak from the general area increases the odds somewhat!

Cheers Ben

Wellardmac

Welcome! Glad to have you join us and you've come in with a great attitude.

We truly have remarkable cars - as you said, among the most reliable in the world - and they're meant to be enjoyed, rather than obsessed over their inevitable (according to some) death from nuclear IMS explosion.

Enjoy your car well - it's meant to be driven!

Wellardmac

But it doesn't! It just means you have an oil leak - no more, no less.

The purpose of this forum is so that we can help each other. If we jump to conclusions and turn into a quivering wreck in the corner of the room at the first sign of a drop of oil, crying over the impending death of our cars, then there's something wrong with the world. By coming here you share in experience and get guidance from a few of us that have seen these things. If you wanted irrational and emotional responses where people just jump to conclusions, then we could just consult our wives.

Neotorque

Ha! +1!

jdog

I guess I still don't understand where anyone in this thread said,"Stop, drop and roll your car into your nearest Porsche expert cause you my son have an IMS failure that I can diagnose from my computer."
So can we drop this SH*& and talk about the new wing that I am going to put on the 996?
http://falconracingwings.com/16_SQ_FT_WINGS.html

What do you guys think?

Dharn55

Wellard - yesterday you said that your dealer had "never changed an IMS bearing" which does not really surprise me as mst dealers don't change the bearings. Dealers tend to change the engines. The question that should be asked is how many failed engines they have seen/changed. And of these how many we're diagnosed as a failed IMS? And remember that if they just returned a failed engine to Porsche's policy for a long time until the engines were out of warranty when Porsche just denied any liability, then they don't really know the cause of the failure as Porsche sure isn't divulging that information.

I remember when I posted here on Rennlist that I had never had a RMS leak or any of the other known failures for these engines, kind of scoffing at all the talk! That was about six months to a year before my cracked head/intermix. There are a few known problems and weaknesses in these engines and Porsche has not been particularly forthcoming on the issues. And remember that people like Jake tend to see the cars that have broken and that may skew their prospective. And on the various blogs people tend to talk about the problems they have experienced and share their fixes. Most people don't post about the problems they have not experienced (except me that one time I guess) or how their cars have run flawlessly.

I for one am glad for people like Jake who have gathered a lot of experience with the problems that do exist and developed fixes for them. As for the IMS bearing replacement, if you are doing a clutch the incremental cost is not that much and is cheap insurance compared to the cost of an engine these days.

Wellardmac

Doug, I don't deny these things happen to an unfortunate few. Life sucks sometimes and there's always someone to be on the receiving end of it. I feel bad for those that get struck with issues and you have my sympathy. I also recognize that by making comments that I have had good luck with my car tempts fate. Oh well - probability is in my favor, so I'm not concerned about dealing with the noise.

Of the two Porsche dealers I've visited with my car, neither had changed an IMS bearing or dealt with a failed engine (I had that conversation because I was curious). I've heard many others make the same comments. Of the people I've spoken to that have changed an IMS (indy mechanics) they did so at the request of the owners, rather then because of a failure.

A couple of years ago I visited Porsche's (then new) distribution and training center in Easton, PA. I had the discussion with them about engine failures, as there were a couple of 996 engines sitting ready to go back to Germany and their comment was that early on there were failures, but the failures on engines above 40,000 miles were rare and the number of failed engines they see nowadays is very very small. There comments were along the lines that if your car has made it this long and is above 40K miles, then you're pretty safe.

Yes, I am glad that there are people out there that have gained expertise in this area, but they also have to recognize that they have a very skewed perspective and that the failures they see are not typical of the general population or that common. It really chafes me to hear people talk like this is a common failure that is waiting to take down all 996 engines - that simply is not true - if it were, Porsche would be in deep trouble and would have to deal with it.

In this particular case, I really did not take offense at the IMS comments themselves, but the fact that the topic went right there without any effort to ask questions and diagnose - that was uncalled for and not helpful to the OP.