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If you have access to REC90, you don't need any additives. Just beware of phase separation when switching from E10 to REC90. The REC90 can't hold any water in suspension, unlike the E10. So don't switch back and forth between REC90 and E10. If you can't get REC90 all the time, you are better off sticking to E10 and using an additive in the fuel.
For those of us without access to ethanol free fuels, run a top tier fuel. In my case, there are no top tier gas stations anywhere on my route between home and the shop (60 mi drive), so I run a bottle of injector defender every other tank of gas. If you use a top tier fuel, running one bottle every 2500-3000 miles is recommended.
I know many of you have other Porsches - if it's older than a Boxster or 996, you need to run injector defender (or carb defender) to protect the fuel system from the ethanol enriched fuels. Porsche put out a bulletin many years ago stating the 993 and earlier models are not compatible with anything greater than E5.
Lastly, if your tank of E10 isn't going to be used up in a month, you need to add a stabilizer (i.e. injector defender) as these fuels can go bad very quickly, unlike REC90 which is stable to up to a year easily (I'd still use a stabilizer).
Hi Charles. Happy Halloween. Your website is an excellent resource of information, TYVM for spending the time to compile it. I had a question about some information I read here. How common is acetobacter? The reason I ask is because there is a Shell very close to where I live that I always buy V-Power 93 from. I noticed recently that at least some of the pumps there started pumping super slowly..... I know they use fuel filters but reading the information on your website makes me curious. When you say untreated fuel should be used up quickly, what treatment are you referring to? I am assuming you are referring to Injector Defender but does this prevent or kill acetobacter?
Next time you go to put gas and see the station is accepting a fuel delivery, just keep driving by. It is a good practice not to pump when stations are receiving a fuel delivery, as contaminants can be stirred up and even though the fuel is filtered at the pump, why risk getting contaminated fuel? Avoid gas stations with slow filling fuel pumps as this can be a sign there are microorganisms living in the fuel storage tanks that thrive when ethanol and water are present. These bacteria, known as acetobacter, generate acetic acid, which is very corrosive and can cause damage to metal parts in your fuel system. These colonies can form in your fuel tank too, so untreated fuels should be used up within a few weeks to prevent damage.
Hi Charles. Happy Halloween. Your website is an excellent resource of information, TYVM for spending the time to compile it. I had a question about some information I read here. How common is acetobacter? The reason I ask is because there is a Shell very close to where I live that I always buy V-Power 93 from. I noticed recently that at least some of the pumps there started pumping super slowly..... I know they use fuel filters but reading the information on your website makes me curious. When you say untreated fuel should be used up quickly, what treatment are you referring to? I am assuming you are referring to Injector Defender but does this prevent or kill acetobacter?
Next time you go to put gas and see the station is accepting a fuel delivery, just keep driving by. It is a good practice not to pump when stations are receiving a fuel delivery, as contaminants can be stirred up and even though the fuel is filtered at the pump, why risk getting contaminated fuel? Avoid gas stations with slow filling fuel pumps as this can be a sign there are microorganisms living in the fuel storage tanks that thrive when ethanol and water are present. These bacteria, known as acetobacter, generate acetic acid, which is very corrosive and can cause damage to metal parts in your fuel system. These colonies can form in your fuel tank too, so untreated fuels should be used up within a few weeks to prevent damage.
It would be a biocide that would have to be put into the holding tanks at the gas station if there is acetobacter present. Biocide is registered as a pesticide by the EPA and cannot be added to a fuel additive. They have to be a stand alone product and not part of a multi-function fuel additive.
That said, this is more of an issue with diesel fuels, especially bio-diesel blends.
Interesting, thank you, great information from you as always about more of an issue with diesel fuels. What would we do without you?
I went to this Shell last night because I usually fill-up when I get down to ~ 1/4 of a tank of gas because it's easier on the in-tank low pressure fuel pump. So I tried a different gas pump #1 and it seems to operate at normal flow speed like I have been used to for years unlike at least two of the other pumps at this station that have been very slow the last several weeks. Very weird. I know other people were having the same issue at this station because I heard someone complaining about it. It was pumping gas so slow that the lack of pressure caused the shut-off not to work and it overflowed gas out of the tank, fortunately I was alert and standing right there so stopped it quickly.
Possibly it is the fuel filers that need to be replaced. I asked the person working there and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about, so I will probably never know for sure....... From now on I will only use pump #1 at this station I guess.
The increase in OC was with the Restore oil, but only after the stated 1500-2000 miles, at which time, changing it out for another fill of Restore brought consumption back in line.
I would think using the Restore oil would be perfect for engines as you describe. I'd run Driven Defender in every tank for at least 1000 miles, if not longer as well. In fact, Porsche had a directive to use Techron to clean the injectors years ago:
You would run Driven Defender because dirty injectors can contribute to oil consumption, correct? This makes sense to me because the fuel must atomize to combust and especially in direct injection engines there is less time so a dirty injector will make it so less fuel atomizes, resulting in more soot by way of more fuel that does not combust.
To this end most of the Driven fuel cleaners are out of stock including on your website as well it looks like and I am down to my last bottle. Any fuel additive with PEA should be suitable. Do you know the deference between Chevron Techron® Fuel Injector Cleaner vs Chevron Techron® Complete Fuel System Cleaner? The Complete Fuel System Cleaner product description states it has PEA -- interestingly the Fuel Injector Cleaner does not.
You would run Driven Defender because dirty injectors can contribute to oil consumption, correct? This makes sense to me because the fuel must atomize to combust and especially in direct injection engines there is less time so a dirty injector will make it so less fuel atomizes, resulting in more soot by way of more fuel that does not combust.
To this end most of the Driven fuel cleaners are out of stock including on your website as well it looks like and I am down to my last bottle. Any fuel additive with PEA should be suitable. Do you know the deference between Chevron Techron® Fuel Injector Cleaner vs Chevron Techron® Complete Fuel System Cleaner? The Complete Fuel System Cleaner product description states it has PEA -- interestingly the Fuel Injector Cleaner does not.
It would be Technron complete fuel system cleaner that should be used because, as you stated, the other does not have PEA.
Cleaning the injectors alone isn't the only reason we recommend running a fuel additive with PEA. High doses will clean up carbon deposits and free up rings and have other benefits. We've been able to save engines that were improperly broken in through repeated heavy dosing with Injector Defender coupled with the Restore oil or a conventional non-friction modified engine oil.
As a side note, we should have Injector Defender back in stock by the end of the month.
Charles can respond but I did not read his message to state Injector Defender isn't as good as Techron. My opinion for what little it's worth is that I am mainly after the PEA (polyetheramine), which both products have. They both use a proprietary package but Injector Defender also has corrosion inhibitors and lubrication enhancers which I care about even in my flex fuel capable engine because I hate ethanol. Driven may have changed but I believe they were using a Lubrizol package at least as of a few years ago (may have changed to Afton like their soot dispersant package in the oils). I find it strange the Chevron Fuel Injector cleaner costs 2-3 times more and doesn't even have PEA....... why would anyone that understands this product choose it? PEA is the best for cleaning injectors so why would they not use it?
I used my final bottle of Injector Defender last night before filling up but NAPA is running a monthly special on 32 oz bottles of Techron CFSC for $12 so I picked up 3 bottles of that. Once the Injector Defender is back in stock at LN I will switch back to it. In the meantime I feel comfortable with Techron as I ran that on my 996s going back something like 15-20 years and I had never seen the TSB Charles posted in #64 above but that Porsche was recommending this kind of product only reinforces that I have been on the right track.
Charles TYVM for responding. You know I appreciate it.......
Lastly, ethanol blended fuels also have reduced lubricity over non-ethanol fuels, directly effecting fuel system and engine component life for both vintage and modern engines, especially those with gasoline direct injection (GDI) or gasoline compression ignition (GCI). Elimination of sulfur from domestic fuels for emissions reasons has had an adverse, negative effect on the lubricity of fuels, increasing wear to high pressure injection pumps. Specifically, sulfur’s interaction with metal surfaces to reduce friction on metal sliding surfaces lowers abrasive wear, requiring the addition of lubrication enhancers (LE) to overcome poor lubricity of ethanol blended fuels.Driven’s Injector Defender can be used to provide added lubricity while providing protection from corrosion caused by ethanol. Even with proper dosing, acid based LE outperforms ester based LE, but with sufficient dosing, either LE additive can provide protection to all fuel system and engine components. Without knowing which LE is used and in what concentration, testing carried out by Total ACS found that premium fuels resulted in lower wear, so again, use of a Top Tier fuel in a premium grade where non-ethanol fuels are not available is highly recommended. [12]
I swear by driven I’m have defender in both Porsches and both of them are getting driven oil changes this week
my question is only because supply issues for driven stuff isn’t convenient and an alternative might be necessary
I am also doing my oil change soon and I want to run a few tanks of PEA which was the reason I bought Chevron instead of just waiting. This is nothing to obsess over but if you want to do things the most textbook/correct way, which I always try to do all else equal, it is best to run these products in the last tank(s) of gas just before you change your oil (I believe this is essentially what the TSB is getting at in step 6 where it says never more than 20 oz per 3,000 miles). It only cost me $42 for the 3 x 32oz Chevron CFSC so I'll probably just run that for the next few weeks until the Defender supply issues are hopefully resolved and then switch back to running the Defender once per OCI just before each oil change like I have been on all my cars forever.
A question to the group my TTS has 80k miles and it’s has been dealer serviced it’s whole life
im about to change the oil to driven DI40 do I add ceratec or luqui moly mos2 or neither needed for winter driving
also my 99 996 with 103k miles about to do the same with DT40
is it necessary or overkill
A question to the group my TTS has 80k miles and it’s has been dealer serviced it’s whole life
im about to change the oil to driven DI40 do I add ceratec or luqui moly mos2 or neither needed for winter driving
also my 99 996 with 103k miles about to do the same with DT40
is it necessary or overkill
Both DI40 and DT40 have more friction modifiers than an A40 oil supplemented with Ceratec, so there would be no benefit to adding any additives to Driven oils.
Charles can respond but I did not read his message to state Injector Defender isn't as good as Techron. My opinion for what little it's worth is that I am mainly after the PEA (polyetheramine), which both products have. They both use a proprietary package but Injector Defender also has corrosion inhibitors and lubrication enhancers which I care about even in my flex fuel capable engine because I hate ethanol. Driven may have changed but I believe they were using a Lubrizol package at least as of a few years ago (may have changed to Afton like their soot dispersant package in the oils). I find it strange the Chevron Fuel Injector cleaner costs 2-3 times more and doesn't even have PEA....... why would anyone that understands this product choose it? PEA is the best for cleaning injectors so why would they not use it?
I used my final bottle of Injector Defender last night before filling up but NAPA is running a monthly special on 32 oz bottles of Techron CFSC for $12 so I picked up 3 bottles of that. Once the Injector Defender is back in stock at LN I will switch back to it. In the meantime I feel comfortable with Techron as I ran that on my 996s going back something like 15-20 years and I had never seen the TSB Charles posted in #64 above but that Porsche was recommending this kind of product only reinforces that I have been on the right track.
10-31-2023, 05:24 PM
