996 Horsepower (No Mezgers Allowed)

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11-26-2023, 10:33 AM

#331

cdk4219

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellmacher

Got to keep in mind that no two dynometers read the same & factors like temperature, barometric readings and the operator, alter results as well.
The only way to compare 2 cars is on the same dyno, same day, same operator !

This is very true, dyno sheets can be manipulated to read high, just a couple of keyboard strokes does the magic.

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11-26-2023, 10:52 AM

#332

zbomb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellmacher

Sorry if I broke some unspoken rule about posting to this thread unless I’ve actually had my 996 on a dyno. Whether I, personally, have had 1, none, or 1,000
cars on one has no bearing on my above statement….if you don’t agree with it, why not just come out and say so? I’ll be happy to debate this with you…oh wait,sorry
I forgot, I really shouldn’t be posting here……oh, yes, fuel grade and quality…..those better be the same also…sorry I just had to slip that last one in…bye bye……..

Jeesh... little defensive eh, you could just say everything you know on the topic has been learned by reading stuff people post on the internet.

This thread is not about scientific grade A to B comparisons. It's about building a library of data points for people to use as a resource when thinking about what they may want to do to their cars. The comparative value comes in scale and is why it's important to build the biggest library possible to stabilize results and highlight outliers. And the best method for testing A to B is an engine dyno that can be done in an envrironemtally, and engine temp stable operating state that also removes all drivetrain associated factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdk4219

This is very true, dyno sheets can be manipulated to read high, just a couple of keyboard strokes does the magic.

If this were true, every dyno operator would pump the numbers up for their customers, customers with big HP numbers are happy customers.

Everyone can take the information for whatever value it has to them - you didn't pay anything for it. Better would be, go put your cars on the dyno and add to the great information that has been provided.

And BTW, make sure to tell the operator to use those magic key strokes to get your car to the top of the list.

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11-26-2023, 11:01 AM

#333

996C438

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The amount of variables that can affect the numbers is staggering . The AFR . Tire pressures . How many external cooling fans being used . Engine lid up or down . Fuel quality . Ambient temp and humidity . Engine oil . How tight is the car strapped down . Is the operator letting the hot air in the bay clear out between runs . And many more .

In my 5 years at FSI I was part of or witness to hundreds of dyno pulls . I am no expert just know what I saw . The simplest changes can make a difference . Not a huge difference but it all adds up . I never once saw any keyboard manipulation . The numbers were/are the numbers . All done on a Dynojet .

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allcool (11-26-2023), Leedlast (11-29-2023), Schnellmacher (11-26-2023), wdb (11-26-2023), wildbilly32 (11-26-2023)

11-26-2023, 11:02 AM

#334

hatchetf15

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hatchetf15

^^^^ Interesting since my 3.8 rebuild was done in 2016 with average torque higher than that 2013 peak. But, each rebuilt engine is its own micro environment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellmacher

Hence, my remark about “micro environment” and solely comparing torque curves.

Last edited by hatchetf15; 11-26-2023 at 11:07 AM.

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11-26-2023, 11:26 AM

#335

zbomb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 996C438

On the DJ, the affects of ambient temp/humidity and barometric pressure should be accounted for by the weather station and calculations rolled into the correction factor the operator applies, it looks like FSI used the relatively standard CF5. Of the other stuff you mention, AFR is an engine calibration so it will have a big impact in output. Engine coolant and oil temp should be kept consistent to the extent possible, I would hazard a guess that FSI would do this for their own data but also run through various operating temp windows to assure behavior as expected in sub optimal conditions. Tire pressure falls into a mechanical check that should be done along with all other mechanical aspects before testing and if the pressures are within standard operating ranges I would be curious if you saw deltas of more than a couple WHP.

The beauty of the chassis dyno is the systemic view it gives and what is going on with the system matters to the engine output that is observed. While not the best tool for A to B comparisons or dick measuring contests (engine dyno), its the tool we have at relatively easy reach to paint the picture of expectation and I think reviewing the data thats been collected to date, we have developed strong trends, which was the goal.

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11-26-2023, 12:08 PM

#336

996C438

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I can't remember any huge differences between runs that made a bigger impact than letting the room clear out . A combination of adjusting fans and letting the room breathe . On some cars a 7 hp difference .

My car when we dynoed it was the highest hp 3.8 five chain engine we had run . Nice to brag about for 5 minutes but ultimately its how the car drives that's important to me . Yes numbers are numbers and it is something to compare .

Not sure if my hp number still stands but at 318.50 and 290 torque I am happy . Someone will always have more .

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allcool (11-26-2023), EVOMMM (11-28-2023), Schnellmacher (11-26-2023), SealG996 (11-27-2023), wdb (11-26-2023), and 1 others liked this post.

12-22-2023, 08:43 PM

#337

zbomb

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Really strong power from the Renn2.7. My first impression is it is a little laggier than I would expect but the power comes in very well at full boost. The motor had upgraded rods, I am not really sure what the comfort level would be on the stock rods for this motor. Also, I'm not sure if the 1.25 correction factor is standard for conditions or for some other reason. Maybe the Renn2.7 guys will chime in with some more detail. Also, kind of assuming this was on pump gas but did not see fuel mentioned by the builders. ETA... Did get a confirmation these are pump gas results.

ETA #2... after talking to the Renn27 dude on IG, he did relay that the correction factor was to demonstrate crank HP, the WHP was about 435. I'm going to leave the info in for reference as the graph definitely provides input into power delivery but remove the number from the list.

My opinion, if this setup can be proven to hold up and not get nuclear hot under track conditions, it looks like a very solid performer. My preference is still the reduced complexity/risk of displacement over forced induction but there is no denying, that dyno graph will turn the tepid 996 into a monster.

Last edited by zbomb; 12-23-2023 at 01:17 PM.

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12-22-2023, 10:02 PM

#338

k_harley

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2.7T swapped 996

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01-11-2024, 06:42 PM

#339

zbomb

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CPE build LS3. Mustang dyno 438WHP.

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01-26-2024, 07:41 AM

#340

zbomb

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3.6 M96

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19241531

Numbers below are the same, 282WHP and 244 FTLBS as @Falcon911 shared for his stock 3.6 earlier in the thread.