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Originally Posted by 3/98 911 coupe;[url=tel:17584167
17584167[/url]]a properly formulated oil has additives that help it release entrapped air. Is silicon that encapsulates the air bubble and makes it float to the surface and then it pops. Also when you design a reservoir for oil, you guide the flow of oil to curves, channels, etc, so that it cools, and helps it release entrapped air. The worst situation is with a hydraulic system due to the oil function, but if you have a general understanding of this you know what we are talking about. There are industry tests that you can see the oils ability to dissipate entrapped air, unfortunately most of it is in hydraulic systems and not motor oils. Anyway, Jakes mentions cooling cycle and the driver, yes I take my car supersonic and has been as high as 160. When I cool it down I take it easy for a while allow the oil temp to stabilize, to the point that I had squirrel 🐿 test the fan in my engine compartment because it never came on. When You shut it down temps are going to
rise, but if you stabilize it, in my case the auxiliary fan was never coming on. A big variable is the one behind the wheel and driving practices.
I’m sure it’s complicated, and lots of variables, but I was asking about one. Either oil holds more air at higher temps or lower temp, or neither.
I’m sure it’s complicated, and lots of variables, but I was asking about one. Either oil holds more air at higher temps or lower temp, or neither.
mike in theory when oil is hot and it thins out the encapsulated air particle, bubble should go to the surface and burst faster. In the old days because you were concern about cavitation a simple test that was used , was basically to introduce an aerating stone (Like in a fish tank) create a certain volume of foam and then time it for it to dissipate at certain volume levels. I did a quick
search and found the below article. STLE( Society of Tribologist and Lubricantion engineers) is a great source. I’m Not certain this data would be available and I will check with my contacts . If I recall correctly at Valvoline the VR1 racing engine oil had additional additives to combat aeration because racing engines turned
higher Rpms, on a race your average rpms are much higher than daily driving. Whoever has a contact with Driven should check with them to see if the address this in their formulation. It is definitely possible to formulate an oil to aereate less.
Originally Posted by 3/98 911 coupe;[url=tel:17584716
17584716[/url]]mike in theory when oil is hot and it thins out the encapsulated air particle, bubble should go to the surface and burst faster. In the old days because you were concern about cavitation a simple test that was used , was basically to introduce an aerating stone (Like in a fish tank) create a certain volume of foam and then time it for it to dissipate at certain volume levels. I did a quick
search and found the below article. STLE( Society of Tribologist and Lubricantion engineers) is a great source. I’m Not certain this data would be available and I will check with my contacts . If I recall correctly at Valvoline the VR1 racing engine oil had additional additives to combat aeration because racing engines turned
higher Rpms, on a race your average rpms are much higher than daily driving. Whoever has a contact with Driven should check with them to see if the address this in their formulation. It is definitely possible to formulate an oil to aereate less.
Good stuff. I found a source that suggests that air decreases with increased oil temp, so that’s not a contributing factor. Oil with impurities, however, is a factor, so clean oil will aerate less, all things equal.
Good stuff. I found a source that suggests that air decreases with increased oil temp, so that’s not a contributing factor. Oil with impurities, however, is a factor, so clean oil will aerate less, all things equal.
Google is your friend: https://www.advancedta.com/blog/2016...should-we-care
I would think one main advantage of the dry sump system is having a low-pressure reservoir where dissolved air can escape and foam can dissipate over a longer residence time. Wet sumps don’t provide the residence time.
Google is your friend: https://www.advancedta.com/blog/2016...should-we-care
I would think one main advantage of the dry sump system is having a low-pressure reservoir where dissolved air can escape and foam can dissipate over a longer residence time. Wet sumps don’t provide the residence time.
Sure they can...
Residence time is a function of sump capacity.
The standard dry sump tank is 3 gallon, and is ran at 2/3 capacity.
The 3.4 m96 engine has a capacity of 9.3qts + 2qts for deep sump = 11.3qts during oil change, a fresh dry motor will take even more to fill first time.(over 3 gallon) ..
Jake - Hope you can answer my question above but am wondering if it may have came from a post from user ltusler who is running your track performer engine.
Originally Posted by ltusler
This, I have over 3k track miles on my Track Performer II. 90 percent of the miles at Brainerd and Road America. Both have long sweepers. I run R7's. Yes the pressure droops, but never goes to 0.
It seems like your motor, despite the pressure "droops" still maintains good reliability, would you attribute that to maintaining your preferred oil temp ? Are the droops due to the pickup becoming uncovered or some other cause ?
It seems like your motor, despite the pressure "droops" still maintains good reliability, would you attribute that to maintaining your preferred oil temp ? Are the droops due to the pickup becoming uncovered or some other cause ?
I originally built this engine in 2008. It has been freshened up once since then(2012), and made larger at the same time. It has been making 440HP for close to a decade. The first time around it saw over 200 hours of dedicated track time.
That said, you guys can keep looking at all the squiggly lines on plots and I'll do things my way. As long as we all reach a result that is acceptable. I have too much going on with developments for cam adjusters, cylinder heads, and etc to state things that add to this discussion any further, only to be told that the squiggly line doesn't prove that its right.
You guys will learn a lot more if you continue doing what you are doing, gaining experience, comparing squiggly lines, and sharing info. Maybe you won't blow anything up, or terminally injure anything in the process.
I wasn't that lucky, and failure is the only way that I learn.
I didn't have anyone to share info with, or to ask questions to. No life line. Everyone in those days thought I was a fool for even opening these engines up, or doing anything to them.
You guys will figure it out. I'll just get in your way and we'll argue in the mean time.
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 08-03-2021 at 06:41 PM.
If by asking if the pressure drops in your engine are acceptable due to the temps limiting their scope and if the drops are due to the pickup being uncovered or some other cause are, in your view, argumentative, or meant to incite an argument… that’s certainly not my intent.
You are the most experienced and respected engine builder for M96’s - in a forum where asking questions in an attempt to learn is pretty normal - who would be a better person to ask ?
I’m definitely going to keep sharing the squiggly lines ( actually, sending them to Paul for hopefully him to continue his awesome analysis ), and the videos for context of my setup - it takes my opinion and pre conceived notions out of the equation and who knows, maybe if some other people generate some squiggly lines of their own - we could have some interesting comparative data, for me - it’s fun.
As always, anyone should feel free to contribute, or not to the topic at hand.
To be honest with anybody here, if I would have read half of this thread and everything else in this forum I would have stuck with vws. It is honestly scary to read all of this. Hopefully 10 years down the road I will be able to tell you guys my engine has 175,000 miles and it hasn’t blown up,
Great thread! I’m way more knowledgeable about this topic than when it started. Hopefully JR continues, as well as the others, to keep adding to the conversation.
zbomb,
nice job keeping it on point with all the personalities and egos in here.!😎
I originally built this engine in 2008. It has been freshened up once since then(2012), and made larger at the same time. It has been making 440HP for close to a decade. The first time around it saw over 200 hours of dedicated track time.
That said, you guys can keep looking at all the squiggly lines on plots and I'll do things my way. As long as we all reach a result that is acceptable. I have too much going on with developments for cam adjusters, cylinder heads, and etc to state things that add to this discussion any further, only to be told that the squiggly line doesn't prove that its right.
You guys will learn a lot more if you continue doing what you are doing, gaining experience, comparing squiggly lines, and sharing info. Maybe you won't blow anything up, or terminally injure anything in the process.
I wasn't that lucky, and failure is the only way that I learn.
I didn't have anyone to share info with, or to ask questions to. No life line. Everyone in those days thought I was a fool for even opening these engines up, or doing anything to them.
You guys will figure it out. I'll just get in your way and we'll argue in the mean time.
After 20 years of bull**** sump mods, fancy oil, and Accusumps, why would any M96 owner take someone's word for it on anything? With a now 20 year long record of failure, it's not much of stretch to call the claims made by these products fraud, and their continued sale theft.
After 20 years of bull**** sump mods, fancy oil, and Accusumps, why would any M96 owner take someone's word for it on anything? With a now 20 year long record of failure, it's not much of stretch to call the claims made by these products fraud, and their continued sale theft.
Chris Cervelli
Cervelli Technical Service
Add to that the IPD plenum, The kN intake . Now I do feel different about skip stuff. My engine was ticking and a video was posted here. Most people said bore scoring. Skip said no that’s probably carbon deposits or the cats. Anyway after using CRC GDI. Ticking is gone. Skip has a world of knowledge and I can really see how this sump is going to be for real.
Welp i think most know that the deep sump and good oil didnt help my motor from blowing up on street tires. That being said ill have a used 2 qt pan for sale soon.
08-02-2021 | 05:00 PM
