997.1 motor into 996.2 C4 done... now P0413 CEL
03-10-2019, 05:40 PM
#1
997.1 motor into 996.2 C4 done... now P0413 CEL
So I got the motor in and everything runs fine, still have some things to do including the how to photo story that is in process...the car runs well, has a few hesitations and grumbles but nothing much. Now I need to get it smogged...
Questions for y'all:
CEL came on - It's throwing the secondary air valve code P0413 on cold start up. If I erase the codes after the car is started, the CEL doesn't come back on until the next cold start. Hot starts don't seem to trigger it.
On the 997, there isn't a secondary air pump so thus no place to hook up the 996 one to the motor.
According to some research hereabouts, the ECU measures the voltage of the secondary pump to determine whether it is working. Can anyone confirm that? If that is the case, could I install a resistance across the pump connector that would simulate that voltage drop? I'm thinking it would likely have to be via a relay so that it's not always present.
Is it possible to delete the secondary air pump requirement from the ECU programming? Is there a laptop option that can do that?
If I pull the ECU from the donor 997, would that be the easiest solution? Is that even possible? Would it screw up anything else on the 996?
Thanks to all of those who've helped me get this far.
Questions for y'all:
CEL came on - It's throwing the secondary air valve code P0413 on cold start up. If I erase the codes after the car is started, the CEL doesn't come back on until the next cold start. Hot starts don't seem to trigger it.
On the 997, there isn't a secondary air pump so thus no place to hook up the 996 one to the motor.
According to some research hereabouts, the ECU measures the voltage of the secondary pump to determine whether it is working. Can anyone confirm that? If that is the case, could I install a resistance across the pump connector that would simulate that voltage drop? I'm thinking it would likely have to be via a relay so that it's not always present.
Is it possible to delete the secondary air pump requirement from the ECU programming? Is there a laptop option that can do that?
If I pull the ECU from the donor 997, would that be the easiest solution? Is that even possible? Would it screw up anything else on the 996?
Thanks to all of those who've helped me get this far.
03-10-2019, 06:54 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
The M97.01 and the M96.05 still has a secondary air pump but seems to be a much simpler configuration than the M96.01/02/03/05. The 997 air pump is mounted under the intake, instead of near the left rear tail light. I may be wrong, but looks like you could just run the wring to the air pump, make sure the supporting vacuum hoses arrangement are hooked to to function as intended, and should work.
Last edited by Porschetech3; 03-10-2019 at 07:11 PM.
03-10-2019, 07:04 PM
#3
not sure if i's my computer or your posting but all I see is a massive amount of data lines where your photos should be...
Understood on your reply tho, I'll try to find some photos from the 997 removal...I don't recall that I looked at it specifically when I was pulling the 997 motor. I hope the connector is somewhat reachable, I don't want to pull the motor out again!!
Understood on your reply tho, I'll try to find some photos from the 997 removal...I don't recall that I looked at it specifically when I was pulling the 997 motor. I hope the connector is somewhat reachable, I don't want to pull the motor out again!!
03-10-2019, 07:13 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
not sure if i's my computer or your posting but all I see is a massive amount of data lines where your photos should be...
Understood on your reply tho, I'll try to find some photos from the 997 removal...I don't recall that I looked at it specifically when I was pulling the 997 motor. I hope the connector is somewhat reachable, I don't want to pull the motor out again!!
Understood on your reply tho, I'll try to find some photos from the 997 removal...I don't recall that I looked at it specifically when I was pulling the 997 motor. I hope the connector is somewhat reachable, I don't want to pull the motor out again!!
03-10-2019, 07:18 PM
#5
ha! That looks much better...now I just have to figure out where the connector is but that's a great start... I wonder if it's now in the main engine plugs on the passenger side...?
03-11-2019, 02:36 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Glad to here of your progress!
03-11-2019, 07:18 PM
#8
Hey Pete,
I emailed particlewave yesterday but have yet to hear back about his fix.
Do you have more info on the delete?
Is that something I can have a local tuner do? Or a local indie P mechanic?
I'm doubting the P dealer would do it, right? :-)
I emailed particlewave yesterday but have yet to hear back about his fix.
Do you have more info on the delete?
Is that something I can have a local tuner do? Or a local indie P mechanic?
I'm doubting the P dealer would do it, right? :-)
03-12-2019, 10:38 AM
#9
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On the 996 ECU/DME what you want is the ROW (rest of world) flash. That changes the internal coding to ignore SAI errors. Try the ECUDoctors https://www.ecudoctors.com/
This is a specialized area and you don't want to screw this up. If the local indie has the PIWIS system, then I believe they can do it as well. Durametric does not do coding.
This is a specialized area and you don't want to screw this up. If the local indie has the PIWIS system, then I believe they can do it as well. Durametric does not do coding.
03-13-2019, 05:12 PM
#11
Rennlist
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Mechanically there's few ways to delete the SAI system. The quick & dirty one is just to remove the pump and plug the hose. More elegant way is to remove everything even remotely related to the system and plug holes on heads. I did that with freeze plugs (996/Mezger engine). Programming has already been discussed.
__________________
Pete
Power. Lots is good, more is better, too much is just right...
'87 951, RIP
'00 996 C2 L92U AQ / IXAA IXRB IX54 M96/7.xx G96/7.88 M030 M375 M376 M436 M476 M601 M983 ... + 991 GT3 brakes, 997 GT3 sway bars, fully monoball'd suspension, Bilstein Cup Car coilovers, do88 Big Pack ICs. 10 & 12 x 19" BBS CH-R wheels with 265/30 & 325 /30 -19 MPSC2s.
Pete
Power. Lots is good, more is better, too much is just right...
'87 951, RIP
'00 996 C2 L92U AQ / IXAA IXRB IX54 M96/7.xx G96/7.88 M030 M375 M376 M436 M476 M601 M983 ... + 991 GT3 brakes, 997 GT3 sway bars, fully monoball'd suspension, Bilstein Cup Car coilovers, do88 Big Pack ICs. 10 & 12 x 19" BBS CH-R wheels with 265/30 & 325 /30 -19 MPSC2s.
03-20-2019, 05:58 PM
#13
Are you running a 996 DME (ECU) and using the 996 engine harness?
The DME monitors the O2 sensors voltage to conclude if the SAI pump (and all the related valves) are operating correctly.
The DME monitors the O2 sensors voltage to conclude if the SAI pump (and all the related valves) are operating correctly.
03-25-2019, 06:15 PM
#14
@ashai
All I'm looking for now is which pin on the engine electrical connector feeds the SAI. I can then wire the 996 SAI connector to the plug and have the 996 DME trigger the SAI. That's the only thing I need to get my smog renewed. I'm on a 30 day temporary permit right now.
Other than that, everything else seems to be working mostly fine. I haven't put too many miles on it yet so time will tell...
I do have an odd generator warning light that shows up but not every time so I'm not sure why that is. That won't hold up my smog so I'm not super worried about it at the moment.
03-25-2019, 06:27 PM
#15
Yes; all original wiring, DME, etc.
All I'm looking for now is which pin on the engine electrical connector feeds the SAI. I can then wire the 996 SAI connector to the plug and have the 996 DME trigger the SAI. That's the only thing I need to get my smog renewed. I'm on a 30 day temporary permit right now.
Other than that, everything else seems to be working mostly fine. I haven't put too many miles on it yet so time will tell...
I do have an odd generator warning light that shows up but not every time so I'm not sure why that is. That won't hold up my smog so I'm not super worried about it at the moment.
All I'm looking for now is which pin on the engine electrical connector feeds the SAI. I can then wire the 996 SAI connector to the plug and have the 996 DME trigger the SAI. That's the only thing I need to get my smog renewed. I'm on a 30 day temporary permit right now.
Other than that, everything else seems to be working mostly fine. I haven't put too many miles on it yet so time will tell...
I do have an odd generator warning light that shows up but not every time so I'm not sure why that is. That won't hold up my smog so I'm not super worried about it at the moment.
None of those go through the engine electrical connectors (x59/1 and x59/2).
From memory, the 997 pump connector also has 2 pins. The +12v is connected to the engine jump terminal in the engine bay. The ground is going through one of the x59 engine round connectors, switched by the SAI relay.
The two circuits as you can see are quite incompatible and some re-wiring will be needed.