Billup

Highly unlikely since you'd go to install the pan it would immediately roll around and be quite obvious that bolt was in there.

texcwa

As mentioned in 1st post, I did have the IMS replaced early after buying car. It had had several oil changes since then and also had the 60k service done including new plugs, belt, tensioners and water pump. I always cut open filter and never found anything other than the small flake that I brought up in another thread. The oil had no visible contaminants when draining. I have sent a sample to Blackstone.

Also, all debry was found inside the baffled area of sump cover. There were no other contaminants outside of baffle area. Not sure this means anything but the Bolt and other materials were to big to flow in from outside of baffle. The aluminum piece was sucked up to screen on pickup in sump. Could these things have partlally reduced the oil pressure and then when I pulled over the idle pressure dropped the pieces resulting in normal pressure again?

Thanks for responses and I will continue to update and inspect anything that someone thinks should be looked at.

dporto

No way for an IMS flange bolt to get into the sump...

rockhouse66

Couple of thoughts. Are all the bolts that retain the baffles to the sump plate in place? Did you have the AOS replaced - thinking someone dropped a bolt into the hole during the replacement process?

AWDGuy

I think that's the same style bolts for the oil scraper also

tomcat

Not the METAL bolts for the black plastic chain rail - too long per PET. Weird thing is I think the sprocket bolts are hex heads.

Bolt looks like case bolts or bolts for the suction tube or the swirl pots, but doesn't look like anything is missing from the pics.

I don't recall any other similar bolts that would make it to the sump. But regardless of where it came from, and considering the bolt could have been "left in there," the bolt is pretty mangled. If mangled by the engine, then I'd be worried something else is damaged and unfortunately, the only way to figure this out is to split the case.

Expensive now, probably much more expensive later.

Ahsai

A few things interesting in your sump photos. The bolt on the oil scrapper should be an internal hex but yours is a torx. Similar for the other bolts on the sump swirl pots.

Hard to tell how long the broken bolt is. The ones on the cam sprocket are 12mm long. The other possibilities I can think of are case bolts and cam cover bolts (both quite long though).

Billup

Looks similar to this one from this guys 997.1 sump thread where he didn't know about male torx.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...n-on-sump.html

Ahsai

This makes the most sense so far.

texcwa

Just talked to my Indy, there are sevral other 16mm bolts internally (he mentioned where and how many at each location but went over my head) and he says that all locations will require splitting the motor and in addition there will most likely be machine work required. His high estimate until he opens it up is $24+ k to make it a 4.0 or $20+ k to rebuild oem, any thoughts?

DBJoe996

Hmmm...could be a manifold bolt dropped in there during AOS replacement, or an oil filler pipe bolt that got dropped in there. Here is what I would do, make sure every damn bolt is accounted for inside the engine sump, and re-torqued to spec. Now for the weird part. I would button up the sump, re-fill with oil and run it. I have no idea how it got in there and don't want to speculate how it got banged up. The oil pickup filter screen prevented it from getting anywhere inside the engine. It is not a rod bolt so you don't have to worry about that. If it dropped into the sump from one of the cam sprockets, then it would take a lot of dismantling/checking to get to those. If you have had no other ticking, banging, thumping or other weird noises, let's just say you found it, removed it and move on. Run a Durametric scan on cam angles. Run oil analysis and watch/listen for anything not normal. Looking at $20-24K for a rebuild is absurd at this point unless you have time/money to burn. You could tear it all apart and do a forensic analysis, or it could be a big waste or time/money. Just my 2 cents.....sometimes life is a mystery.

Chris(MA)

This is what I was thinking too, if someone was clutzy and dropped it when doing an AOS swap?

texcwa

Your comment is realistic, while talking to my Indy today (for the 4th time) he said something similar. After giving me all the pros and cons, he said that since there was no previous signs of noises, vibrations, ect, I could wait for the Oil analysis to come back from Blackstone. if all normal, clean things up, fill with oil, keep an eye (and ear) on things and drive it. He mentioned that to investigate it the cost would be north of $10-15K and from what he saw, it is most likely that this bolt could of been laying in pan for some time. He mentioned that it could be as simple as one of the bolts that support the pan under crank (these are my words) that could of backed off (should of had thread lock on it) and got waked by the crank causing both the busted bolt and aluminum shrapnel. It would be an expensive tear down if this is all it was. In addition, I am installing the new oil pressure sensor that I got due to the 2 times I had a flash reading of "Engine Failure" w 0 pressure on gauge that turned back to normal within a minute. He believes the two are not related.

So if the oil analysis comes back positive, my oil pressure stays stable after installing new sensor and I do not hear anything not normal, I will drive, check oil frequently and start saving for the future.

Is there any reason not to do this? Spend $10-15k now not knowing or $15-20K later if it blows?

This question was brought up a couple of times and I wanted to respond, I have not (nor do any of my receipts) show that the AOS has been replaced. I perform a crank case pressure check each time I do an oil change and my pressure is at 4.81 in wc.

texcwa

Thanks so much for everyone's comments and help, This question has also been brought up a couple of times, my engine appears to be original, see pic below. I asked my Indy about this and he mentioned that Porsche switched from the hex head bolts to male torque in mid to late 2004.

Slakker

If you go with the "rock what you got" plan, I would recommend a 2nd oil analysis and filter check at 500 miles. You don't have to do a full oil change and it should provide additional peace of mind or confirm things are going downhill.